keilux

Alright my sister called me today saying her oil was not reading on the dipstick, it was about 3-4 weeks ago 1 to 1-1/2 qts of oil was added, I cannot state any mileage between those times, but if I were to guess with would be less than 1k. I do not see any major oil leaks on the block. Any signs of oil leaks are dry oil residue, mostly around the front side of the valve cover gasket. I felt around both sides of the block,again it was mostly dried oil like on the valve cover gasket. So I was looking out the exhaust and did not see or smell any signs of oil burning.

With that said I plan on replacing the valve cover gasket, I know I would need the valve cover gasket, but not sure what else. Do I need gasket/orings for the spark plugs (I don;t see any oil leaking from the spark plugs)? Anything else needed?

Could there be anything causing the oil consumption? Just thinking could it be an over due oil change?? She just bought the car maybe 6 weeks ago max, all the fluid levels looked great....

Oh It s 03 2.4L w/96K.

Hondas are new too me, I undersatnd engine burn oil, but its not rotary engine, so this seem VERY exessive!!!

Thanks for the help!

MSchu

Honda's burn oil... that's just the way they are, there is nothing wrong with that. The engine will run 200, 300 thousand miles or more no problem... just make sure there is enough oil in the system.

of course a quart to a quart and a half in a thousand miles IS excessive. You got everything above, gasket, plug o rings, you might want to ad some RTV to that list for the corners(sharp angles) of the valve cover area around the cam lobes...

Any oil on the ground?

keilux

Thanks for the reply, no there is not oil on the ground, which either makes me think it burning, or drying up out of the valve gasket (or other gasket) before it can leak on the ground.

I understand engines burn oil, old worn seals etc, they are just like people some with issues more than others. But as you said the consumption seems to be excessive!! I only know of rotary engines burning, well we'll say "consuming" oil at that level, but they are designed to do so.

But if the case with the engine is oil burning, I think I may stick with dino oil, save the extra cash for her for adding oil, I was going to switch her to Mobil1....

Are there any other areas to look into? I crawled under the engine, the oil pan gasket was clean, but there is another gasket a few inches above the oil pan (an aluminum section) with very small signs of an oil leak, not sure what this part is called....

GoLowDrew

I would have to disagree with that statement, with a footnote.

I'm on my 6th Honda, and (so far) never have engines that burn oil. Buying oil between changes has been a waste of money.

The footnote would be, I've only owned one Honda that have gone over 100K miles. So maybe because I turn over cars more often than some, I never experienced it.

I did own one (non-Honda) car that had an oil consumption problem (recall). Using Nissan recall as a guide for the QR25DE (2.5L), if it consumes more than 1 qrt per 800 miles, there may be a problem. At this rate, oil could just all disappear at once and kill the engine.

I'm guessing piston rings.

If it's less than 1qrt per 800 miles, then just keep an eye on it. Check it every two weeks, and continue to add to top off.

Your car is getting "old." Start budgeting for a new one down the line.

keilux

Well first off I understand/realize engines are no different than people, some are prone or suffer from certain conditions, from their build (DNA) or lifestlye (maintence/drivestyle).

Well the car has 96K on it, she just bought it about 6 weeks ago, so too her its not old, and for being a Honda its just getting in the middle age, LOL. I have a Hyundai Accent I daily drive, its got 106K on the clock, it develop a valve cover gasket leak over its life, I changed it about 2k miles ago and thus far I have nt seen a drop in oil level, burning is another matter, but its gotta be minimial.

Anyways back to the Accord, is it really known for the Kseries engine to burn oil? I guess the best way to figure out the oil loss is to drain it knowning the current oil level on the dipstick (about a 1/4 reading but well below the minimum), check how many qts drained, then filler back up and see where she is on the dipstick. Then calculate from there...

BTW what is the actual engine model number for the 03 4cyl Accord? And were can I find torque specs or a diagram for changing the valve cover gasket?

MSchu

My 08 j series Coupe burns oil... they all do. I mean it's very slight, but it does do it.

I would suggest staying with Dino also keilux

GoLowDrew

I'm on my first J-series for about a month now. At 500 miles so far so good. It's at 700 now. I'll continue to keep an eye on it. I hope I don't have to edit my reply later down the line.

MSchu

I hope you don't either dude... but loss is very slight. I am at about 3500 miles(1yr and 2 months) and I am down about 1/4-3/8 quart of the break in oil which we know is dino

keilux

I just made a post in my other thread about Mobil1 oil. I added a qt of Advance auto 5w-20, that stuff is LIGHTWEIGHT! Doing a bit of research I may try some 5w30, atleast it will have some substance, less oil burn (if that the problem), just gotta protect the engine, and it may need the higher viscosity.

Before I added the oil the level was 1/8-1/4" reading on the bottom of the dipstick, once I added the 1 qt it was reading about 1/8-1/4" above the minimum, once I drain it I can probably make a good guess as too what oil is left in the engine, thus I can determine down the road what I am consuming.

My sister called the dealer she purchased the used Accord from, she got a phone call back from the salesman, called her on his off hours, hes a great guy! Hes going to talk to his manager about the situation to see what they can do. I/we am not looking for freebies or hand outs, but oil consumption is not anything you can determine from a quick 20min drive.

This all came about because her CEL threw a code 1009 (air fuel metering, emissions control), so she immediately checked the oil level, props for her! I taught her well! LOL. I did find two connections loose, its a rectangular box that has a 1/8 vacuum connection and about 1" hose connection about midway on the intake piping from the airbox to the throttle body, one connects to the TB the other to the valve cover. Could this be the culprit, IDK...

Thanks for the help or input thus far!! I appreciate it!

MSchu

going to a slightly heavier weight is the correct thing to do...

that is also another correct assumption to check the air mass sensor connections on that cel... did the cel clear?

keilux

She got the code cleared at advance auto, thus far it did not come on again. It was ran maybe twice since it was cleared, then I found the open connections.

HatchVX

I have seen ( and im working on one now) that with the 2.4l DO burn an excessive amount of oil and its because the rings go out on them. If you have a record of all you oil changes, then most likely honda will help or cover all of the parts and labor.

keilux

Thanks for the input, but no luck for me with that... She just bought the car used about 6 weeks ago... and the car is 6years old, lol. I am hoping that it could just be the valve cover gasket or some other leak and not internal, and my consider going to a heavier weight oil.

Can you give me any more details on info on the parts/labor Honda covers if you provide records of oil changes? Where did you hear or come across this?

MSchu

They wont cover changes on a car that old unless it was certified... Consumption is usually at the rings for every engine, its not really a big deal other than you need to keep the crank case filled. those engines are good for 2-3 hundred thousand miles at least when cared for properly.

keilux

No I was just curious as too the details of it... So they last 2-300k but they go thru oil like crazy, LOL!

HatchVX

the one im working on is a 03' with 76k and its getting a new block. all covered under warrenty.

MSchu

better to eat some oil than leak it all over the floor... and like crazy is a little bit of an over statement

really... how cool is that.

racebum

the only honda i've ever owned that burns oil is the integra type r, it's a really high strung little engine though. even that is at 1qt per 1500 miles. my guess to the OP is that you have internal issues. open the TB and look in the manifold, is it coated in oil? check the exhaust ports with the header off, are they wet? either one of these normally means head work. ring blow by is also possible although you normally see a black tailpipe. if it's not leaking on the ground you start ruling out what it can be.

BTW do a full oil change and track its burn rate. the only time i've seen a honda burn like this at that mileage is if it was driven some stupid amount of miles on an oil change {like 15k} and massive wear happened from grime, low on oil or just 15k dino oil. after that happens you normally are looking at a rebuild or jdm swap.

Targa250R

The rings eventually wear and seize on all engines. Hondas have been having oil consumption issues since the company existed; it's not some sort of new problem particular to K24 engines.

The part that amuses me is that I began to see a lot more oil consumption issues when Honda switched to 5W-20 oil back in 2001 to incrementally improve fuel economy ratings. The stuff is about as viscous as water and burns off like nobody's business. Most of the F23 engines that consume oil heavily are 2001-2002 models, from my observation.

Now that Honda is using the silly Maintenance Minder system on 2006+ cars, I expect cases of oil consumption to increase even further. 10,000+ mile oil changes on natural oil seem to be a common recommendation, and since a frighteningly few people seem to bother checking their oil level in between changes, I can foresee a lot of junk engines in the future.

Don't hold your breath. Honda's powertrain warranty prior to 2006 was 3 years/36,000 miles. Even now, it's 5 years/60,000 miles. Expecting them to cover a 7 year old car with 96,000 miles is a bit unrealistic. They might be extremely nice and goodwill it, but chances are slim to nil - especially for a 100% parts and labor deal.

keilux

Well I did check the TB there is some black soot, however I still need to remove the header, but there is a good amount of carbon build up out the exhaust tailpipe, which the only car I have seen that comes close is an RX7, but they burn oil by nature. With not jumping to conclusions, I think it is burning oil, removing the header should tell me more, hopefully (but not looking for it) I will find some moisture in there.

I found some records off my sisters bank account, she bought 2qts of 5w20 about June 22, this would be about 2-1/2 weeks since yesterday. I know I check it atleast a week ago, the oil level was midway between the min/max on the dipstick, yesterday it was just reading on the dipstick. I added another qt and it is now reading 1/8-1/4" about the min mark. I would have to say it is buring about 2qts in 6-800miles, that is definatly excessive!! RX7s dont even burn at that rate and they are designed to do so!!!



I am not holding my breath on any time of warranty claim, however I am still going to call Honda to see if they have any records based off the VIN. Perhaps they should reconsider their oil choices, burning oil versus using extra fuel.... the oil burning is worse for the enviroment....

But anyways, I think I wll drain the oil replace the filter and oil with some dino 5w30 and see where it is... Or it maybe better to stick witht he recommended 5w20 and record the burn off...




I appreciate all the help you guys have given me thus far!! Thanks

Fo-Do Fanatic

As you know, it's probably burning the oil instead of leaking it. As you stated drain the oil and put the 5w30 Dino oil in the car and change the filter. Maybe that'll slow things up. It should slow the burn down a little more due to the high viscosity.

Good luck on the car and keep us posted bro!

keilux

I was just thinking of sticking with the 5w20, monitor the oil for the burn rate, once I have a good gauge on it drain it, then put in 5w30 and monitor again, then compare the results.

kane.s2k

This has pretty much cured all oil consumption on both my cars:
http://automotivespeed.com/product_i...products_id=49

keilux

Thanks for the link, I assume this goes in place of the stock PCV? I was thinking the stock PCV could have failed, hence the consumption of oil, but not sure if they typically do fail or if there is a way to test them.

keilux

Anyone know where I can download a service manual for the 03 Accord, until I can purchase one. Or if you have any info on changing the valve cover gasket. Liek torque specs, application of silicone sealant, etc.