VirtualDanger

A couple of days ago while driving back home from work I noticed that the car wasn’t accelerating properly. Paying more attention to it, as the problem progressed I realized that the gears were not shifting properly. In most cases depressing the accelerator pedal was causing the engine to rev higher, but speed was not increasing. The revs would go as high as 4500 rpm, but speed would not go up.

I tried switching between D, D3, 2, and 1. They all behaved the same. The situation became worse, and getting the car to go above 40 kmph was a task. The worst was when I’d stop at a red light, and the car would not start to move after putting it into D when the light turned green. The car would remain stationary, and after 3 to 5 seconds it would slowly jerk and start to move forward.

On reaching home and trying to park I switched to reverse for the first time, and I heard a noise as the gear switched to reverse. The next morning the car started up okay, but putting it into D caused it to start to move forward very reluctantly, unlike its usual behavior. Once moving the gears seemed to shift okay for the first few minutes, accelerating properly, and after 5 minutes started to give trouble just like the previous night.

I spoke to the reps at the Honda dealership/service center and they said that it seemed like a Gearbox issue. Being just a couple of kms from home, I drove it this morning to the place and they took it for a road test and felt it was the same thing. As a first step they said they will check oils, but they are fearful that the gearbox may need to be opened up, and several parts changed including the torque converter. Cost estimates are exorbitant, so I’d like some thoughts and suggestions from the experts in the forum.

The car is a 2006 model, and currently has 84,000 kms on the odometer. It has been maintained at the Honda dealership regularly, and the post 80,000 service was also done. The car is in stock form, with an exception of a tire and alloy wheel change. Major replacements included suspension changes due to regular wear and tear, last year as per the recommendation of Honda.

BLKFLSH

Don't take this as fact, but I think your transmission is gone. Get it checked out by a professional, but start thinking about if you want to invest a few k$ on a transmission. Supposedly the V6 automatic transmission problem was "fixed" after 03 or 04, but obviously NOT. Had any transmission maintenance been done on it before?

VirtualDanger

Thanks for your comment. As much as I was afraid I was gonna hear that, I have a feelings that's the problem.

Regarding the transmission maintenance, I have been getting the car serviced at an authorized Honda dealership, so i'd believe that they have been doing it.

Almighty-Si

Transmission is in fact done.

It will run fine when cold but start to have this issue when you drive for a while and things get hot, correct?

VirtualDanger

Yep, exactly.

When i start up in the morning, its fine. Runs fine and shifts properly. After about 5 to 10 minutes, all the problems kick in.

The only thing that isn't fine even at first start in the morning, is the response when slotted into D. Normally the reaction is almost instant, but now it does nothing for a few seconds, and after about 3 - 5 seconds it jerks and slowly moves forward.

VirtualDanger

I heard back from the Honda dealership/service station a few days ago; their response is that based on their check, the gearbox does need to be replaced. They did mention something about a pressure check in relation to gear changes and supposedly that confirmed that the gearbox replacement was required.

They went on to say that the gearbox, including the torque converter needs to be changed, and that the spare parts alone would approximately come to 6300 USD. This excludes labor and taxes. Assuming I choose to go ahead with it, the parts will be ordered and will come from Noida (in Delhi, India). The time estimate is 1.5 to 2 months.

I feel its crazy overpriced. Thoughts?

BLKFLSH

I feel it's way overpriced too, but then I don't know India. If you can, get some second or third opinions on it (shop around).

Accordman1

Did you check the AT fluid level? Did you have any leak on the AT? If yes and no than yep, your AT is shot. I don't know what version of the Accord is being sold in India. I was totally surprised when they sells the Acura TSX in Canada as a Honda Accord. It is rare that an AT failed at under 60K miles with proper maintenance unless your dealer did not do what you paid them for. I also am surprised that your car suspension had to be replaced too, must be bad roads. At any rate, your best bet is really replacing it with either a new unit or a rebuilt one. I don't know how the car service works in India but in the US you can get either version. A new one will set us back about $3000 and a rebuilt about $2000. In most Asian countries, a skilled mechanic can actually take the AT apart and replace the bad parts and put them back together for you. They rarely had to replace an engine or AT as they just rebuilt the old one (labor is much cheaper) unless it is completely destroyed.

VirtualDanger

The update on the current status:

I took the car back from Honda, and spoke to a few independent mechanics. I've done some general service work and minor repair for my Honda City with Red Line Automotive in Porur, Chennai, and was quite happy with my experience with them. I decided to take the Accord to them, a large part of my decision being based on the sense of subject matter knowledge/expertise they have.

On my long drive over to their place, I used the manual 1, 2, and D3 gears to shift, and the car shifted flawlessly. I'd go as far as say it performed normally. On D though its a different story. Driving on D causes the car to run okay for the first 5 minutes after a cold start, but then progressively deteriorates with time, making the maximum achievable speed lesser and lesser with time (60, then 40, then 20), eventually even fussing to start moving.

The plan initially was to try the flush, following which next steps would be considered, if indeed it was necessary. As of last evening, Thursday, the flush was done, and based on their testing, though the magnitude of the problem seems to have reduced, shifts don't feel smooth. The next step was to open the gear sump below, review and ascertain how to proceed. That update is due tomorrow.

If indeed at this point there is a need to open the gearbox, that's most probably what we will have to do next. I will post updates once I have them.

VirtualDanger

Update as on Mon, July 22:

Heard from Red Line Auto over the weekend; after a period of driving the problem seems to return. Thus the oil flush and other basic checks have proved insufficient. The only option now is to go ahead with opening the gearbox. The plan is to order a gearbox rebuild/refurbish kit, open up the gearbox, and fix whatever parts internally may be damaged. As the cost is considerable, I have made an advance payment, and will be making additional payment in parts. Red Line Auto has been nice enough to agree to start on the work in the meantime anyways.

Will post the next set of updates when I get them.

VirtualDanger

Update as on Feb 14, 2014:

After many delays, the gearbox has been rebuilt. Other issues that were discovered included engine-bed mounts that needed replacing. After all the work was completed, the car was taken for a test run and there was some slipping. The mechanics opinion now is that the Torque Converter needs to be replaced.

The absurdly expensive estimate I have received for it is 867 USD. On ebay I can find the suitable torque converter part for a 160 USD.

A couple of questions:
- Does it make sense that the Torque Converter needs to be replaced?
- Is the pricing absurdly high, or is there something I am missing?

furious94ls

The torque converter had all the bad fluid, metal particles in it. It should have been replaced when the trans was replaced/rebuilt. Why put old, bad parts in it? Hopefully it didnt mess anything else up requiring another rebuild.

Word of advice for future car purchases. STAY away from automatic transmissions.

VirtualDanger

Thanks for your comments furious94ls. The convenience of the autobox is great, but agreed these hassles are a pain.

We weren't sure if the Torque converter needed to be replaced. So the gearbox was rebuilt, and then the car test driven. Thats when we realized the torque converter also needed to be replaced. So thats where it stands as of now.

Would you happen to know what the accurate price for a new torque converter would be?

furious94ls

Majestic Honda has one for $484.

VirtualDanger

I did not have the pictures ready when I made the previous post. Below are the pictures of the gearbox rebuild kit, and the gearbox open when it was being worked on.