Worst Cooling Fan Problem Ever!!!
02-19-2017, 09:39 PM
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Worst Cooling Fan Problem Ever!!!
I posted a similar thread previously when I thought my problem was fuse box corrosion. I have since done quite a bit of testing, and hope this post will help others who have tried all of the basic solutions to no avail. I feel like I have read nearly every post on the internet that exists regarding cooling fan problems, but haven't quite seen this:
(1992 Honda Accord DX, with A/C)
So basically it seems the whole system works when the fan timer is grounded to the blue wire. So what is stopping it from working when thermo switch B is jumped? Is thermo switch B only supposed to show 5v? Is the fan relay supposed to show 97Ω or is that too much resistance? The relay exactly like it for the windows shows the same resistance. I did swap out a different fan timer (had access to one), and there is no difference. Swapped relays and there is no difference. Bought a tone generator and have no clue how to use it yet, but I'm checking online videos. Considering the whole system works from the fan timer successfully, this must a wiring issue right? Specifically the blue wire, especially since that is the same wire that goes to thermo switch B. Where do the two wires from thermo switch B go to? If I know where they go to I can bypass them and see if I can get the fan to come on.
I know there are a million posts about cooling fans, but everyone else seems to solve their problems with a new fan timer and/or a new fan relay. I think this is wiring. Any help would be appreciated.
(1992 Honda Accord DX, with A/C)
- Fan motors work (jumped both directly at the connector and they both spin when powered).
- Fuses are good (No. 2<15a>, No.39<15a>, No.8<7.5a>). Tested both sides of each fuse with a test light.
- Fan Relay clicks when 12v added to the NO side. Multimeter shows 0.00Ω on the circuit side (12V in the picture) when powered. Multimeter shows 97Ω on the NO side when uncharged.
- Radiator fan comes on when fan relay box terminals 2 and 4 are jumped with a paperclip. Fan comes on whether the car is on or not when the paperclip is used.
- Voltage is NOT detected between terminals 1 and 3 when A/C is turned to ON with fan ON and car switched to ON. A/C is not charged currently however, though that shouldn't matter (?)
- When ground is applied to terminal 1, the condenser fan comes on, seems strange.
- No voltage present on terminal 3 with car off. With car on, the test light illuminates.
- Thermo switch A (green arrow, closest to radiator): radiator fan comes on after the car is shut off when the two-wire connector is jumped with a paperclip. Shows 12.28v with voltmeter when car is in ON position.
- Thermo switch B (blue arrow, closest to firewall): radiator fan does not come on when the two-wire connector is jumped with a paperclip. Shows 5.03v with voltmeter when car is in ON position.
- Temperature gauge sender (red arrow, middle sensor): Gage doesn't move when this is connected. When the sending wire is grounded the gauge shoots toward 'F' immediately. Pretty clear a new temperature sender is needed, but it shouldn't stop the fan from working when switch B wires are jumped (?)
- Condenser fan comes on when condenser relay wiring is jumped with a paperclip. Wiring shows 12v with voltmeter (located near the drivers side headlight).
- Condenser fan relay passes the continuity and voltage tests applied above to the relay fan relay.
- Fan Timer Test passes on all 8 pins:
- 1-Yel/Wht: Battery Voltage (yes, test light illuminates)
- 2-Yel/Blk: Battery Voltage (yes, test light illuminates)
- 3-Yel: Battery Voltage (yes, test light illuminates)
- 4-Blk: Continuity to body ground (yes, voltmeter changes from 1Ω to 0.08Ω)
- 5-Wht/Grn: Voltage (12v on multimeter, but test light doesn't illuminate)
- 6-Wht: Battery Voltage (yes, test light illuminates)
- 7-Blk/Yel: Battery Voltage with ignition switch on (yes, test light illuminates)
- 8-Blu: Connect to body ground (yes, both fans engage when this is done).
So basically it seems the whole system works when the fan timer is grounded to the blue wire. So what is stopping it from working when thermo switch B is jumped? Is thermo switch B only supposed to show 5v? Is the fan relay supposed to show 97Ω or is that too much resistance? The relay exactly like it for the windows shows the same resistance. I did swap out a different fan timer (had access to one), and there is no difference. Swapped relays and there is no difference. Bought a tone generator and have no clue how to use it yet, but I'm checking online videos. Considering the whole system works from the fan timer successfully, this must a wiring issue right? Specifically the blue wire, especially since that is the same wire that goes to thermo switch B. Where do the two wires from thermo switch B go to? If I know where they go to I can bypass them and see if I can get the fan to come on.
I know there are a million posts about cooling fans, but everyone else seems to solve their problems with a new fan timer and/or a new fan relay. I think this is wiring. Any help would be appreciated.
02-20-2017, 08:46 AM
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Re: Worst Cooling Fan Problem Ever!!!
I think you have your sensors mixed up, I believe the blue arrow is the coolant temp sensor going to ECU while the thermoswitch is actually further back behind the distributor, right by the thermostat. It should have a green connector similar to the one on the upper radiator hose. Are you actually overheating at all?
02-20-2017, 12:45 PM
#3
Re: Worst Cooling Fan Problem Ever!!!
Is the car overheating?
The photo with the green arrow is Fan Switch B, not Fan Switch A.
Fan Switch A is not pictured in that photo, it is located on the thermostat housing – connected to the lower radiator hose. With the ignition to RUN or START, if the coolant temperature is above 194 degrees F at fan switch A, then the switch will close, which should turn on both cooling fans (radiator fan and A/C condenser fan).
If you were to disconnect the 2P connector to the coolant temperature Switch A, and jump the connector with a piece of wire or small paper clip, then turn ignition to ON (II); both fans should run. If both fans run by doing this, that would indicate the power and ground sources, and relays are okay.
Both Switch A and B are normally open type of switches, and if working properly should close when the coolant temperature is above the respective temperatures.
The photo with the green arrow is Fan Switch B, not Fan Switch A.
Fan Switch A is not pictured in that photo, it is located on the thermostat housing – connected to the lower radiator hose. With the ignition to RUN or START, if the coolant temperature is above 194 degrees F at fan switch A, then the switch will close, which should turn on both cooling fans (radiator fan and A/C condenser fan).
If you were to disconnect the 2P connector to the coolant temperature Switch A, and jump the connector with a piece of wire or small paper clip, then turn ignition to ON (II); both fans should run. If both fans run by doing this, that would indicate the power and ground sources, and relays are okay.
Both Switch A and B are normally open type of switches, and if working properly should close when the coolant temperature is above the respective temperatures.
02-22-2017, 05:58 AM
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Re: Worst Cooling Fan Problem Ever!!!
Sorry guys, yes I referred to the switches backwards. Switch B is the green arrow and it works when I jump it with a paperclip; the fan comes on after I turn the car off.
The blue arrow shows 5v on the multimeter but when I jump it, the fans do not come on. The ground wire shows continuity, the lead wire doesn't. But if the lead wire is open then how am I getting 5 volts?
When I jump the blue wire from the fan timer, everything comes on. The relays click when connected to a battery and they show continuity when tested.
Yes it overheats, I'll probably have to change my head gasket which I'm fine with that.
Everything seems to work, I'm starting to wonder if it is the ECU?
Thank you both for your reply, I'm hoping to solve this because I haven't quite seen this problem online yet. All indicators seem to be pointing to ECU, is this a logical conclusion?
The blue arrow shows 5v on the multimeter but when I jump it, the fans do not come on. The ground wire shows continuity, the lead wire doesn't. But if the lead wire is open then how am I getting 5 volts?
When I jump the blue wire from the fan timer, everything comes on. The relays click when connected to a battery and they show continuity when tested.
Yes it overheats, I'll probably have to change my head gasket which I'm fine with that.
Everything seems to work, I'm starting to wonder if it is the ECU?
Thank you both for your reply, I'm hoping to solve this because I haven't quite seen this problem online yet. All indicators seem to be pointing to ECU, is this a logical conclusion?
02-22-2017, 07:23 PM
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Re: Worst Cooling Fan Problem Ever!!!
I think you are talking about this location for Fan Switch A:
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My car is like this picture though, is there a third switch which I am not seeing(?):
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My car is like this picture though, is there a third switch which I am not seeing(?):
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02-22-2017, 08:21 PM
#8
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Re: Worst Cooling Fan Problem Ever!!!
Wow!!! i removed the air intake and hiding under the ignition coil was a little sensor going into the thermostat. I jumped it with a paperclip and the fans came on! Good call guys. But then what is that TW sensor for then? It also shows 5v.
02-23-2017, 12:02 AM
#9
Re: Worst Cooling Fan Problem Ever!!!
It tells the ecu what the temperature of the coolant is so it knows how much fuel to spray.
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