gort

Hi folks - newbie here. I have become the de facto mechanic for my GF's 1990 Accord EX. Tracing an oil leak at the front of the engine. Yesterday I did a timing belt change and replaced the crank, cam and front balance shaft seals. I could not find any info on the rear balance shaft seal, other than that there is an o-ring seal involved. The gear appears to be pressed on and I can't tell where the o-ring might be. A Hayne's manual was no help.

Can someone please point me to a step-by-step for replacing this rear balance shaft seal?

Thanks!

hondamark35

Removal is pretty simple once you know what you're looking for. before you begin though you need to be at TDC on #1. The rear shaft is geared to run reverse rotation of the front so you'll need to lock it in position while things are apart. this step is very important if you want a vibration free result.

the rear pulley is in fact pressed onto the stub shaft. this is all a single unit assembly with the gear housing behind it. the o-ring seal is between that gear housing and the oil pump housing. After setting TDC, remove the bolt circled in red below. Use a thin (about 1/4" or less), long (at least 2.5") bolt or nail or screwdriver to lock the balance shaft through this bolt hole.



check out the three bolts/nut circled in green. remove these and the gear housing, pulley and all will come off. ensure the small timing mark (about the 4 o'clock position) is in line with the dot on the pulley on removal and install. then you'll see something like below;



pop out the seal with a small screwdriver or similar and pop the new one in. then throw it all back together. done!

Spaceballsthelunchbox

This is exaclty what I was looking for.
I made paint marks on the balancer pulley and the housing, but I did not lock it.
The marks I made line up, but I get vibrations so I am thinking I have the gear 180 degrees off. The marks line up, but I am one turn off.

Sounds right?

gort

Thanks for the excellent post Mark. Still a couple of questions:

- Is the o-ring seal I need to buy essentially the oval shaped gasket between the gear housing and the oil pump housing? (circled in green in the second photo) If so, how is the shaft that goes through the gear housing sealed and is that seal replaceable?

- What part do I ask for at the parts counter?

Please forgive my ignorance - I'm new to wrenching on Hondas.

Thanks again!

Fred Demara

Hey Gort, I hope this helps...I wasn't sure of the procedure on how to "lock" the rear balance shaft in place. After I figured it out, I made this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=RcrvchGkJdA

the engine is back in the car, and running smoothly - the balance shaft was not aligned properly when I first got the car, and it was running very rough.

If you haven't already removed the belts, you should "lock" the rear shaft before you start.

Good luck on the leak.

gort

Thanks Fred - I had watched that video too. Now just curious about the o-ring gasket and whether or not you can reseal the shaft that goes through the gear case.

Fred Demara

sorry I cant help on that one, but if you figure it out, please let us know. Good luck!

v4lu3s

if you are referring to the gear drive case housing that goes over the rear balance shaft, it is not a serviceable part. you have to replace the whole housing afaik.
13500-PT0-J00 is the part number, msrp is 258.13, are you sure it is not just the o-ring that needs to be replaced>

gort

Thanks for the replies. It didn't appear to be leaking so I just left it alone. Seems odd that the seal isn't serviceable though - nice work, Honda.

I'm fairly certain that this thing has several leaks. The back side of the engine is coated with oil, so I replaced the VC gasket. The #2 spark plug well is full of oil, so rocker assembly seals are on my to-do list. When I did the timing belt I replaced the cam seal (leaking), the crank seal (not leaking) and the front balancer shaft seal (not leaking, and with retainer in place).

The oil pan gasket leaks as does the drain plug gasket. Amazingly the oil pressure sender looks dry.

I assume if this thing ever quits leaving an oil slick on the driveway it must be outa oil!

Thanks again for the help - I'm sure I'll be back!

hondamark35

i've never seen nor heard of one leaking there. it's not really a pressurized area so there's not a lot pushing on the seals there.

but your question made me curious to find out what exactly is in there... so i went looking!


pulled out the bearing puller and went at it


there it is. just a smooth shaft with a rubber lip seal similar to all the others on the motor. (the first puller was a little to big and i chipped the pulley.. whoops!)


here's a tight shot of the seal. not sure if you can find the seal by that number... but that's all that's on it.

gort

Great post Mark! Really kinda confirms that the part isn't serviceable as the pulley isn't indexed to the shaft via a keyway and it looks like it could go back on in an infinite number of positions, only one of which would be correct to properly time the balance shaft. Honda could have made this a simple inexpensive seal to replace but apparently chose not to.

KEG6795

This thread helped me a lot. Thanks to those that took their time to post pics. I took mine off to replace the failed o-ring and did not pay attention as to where the sprocket was when the shaft is locked through the access bolt prior to disassembly. It did get me thinking however. If you lock the rear balance shaft and position the front balance shaft sproket with the line at 9:00 position, does it really matter where the rear sprocket is? If you lock the shaft, as it instructs you, i dont think it matters what clock position the rear sprocket is in??? Am i missing something here??
I borrowed a Honda OE service manual from a sister dealership that i work for and it states to position the indentation in the sprocket outer lip with the mark on the case up near 12:00, then install. This will rotate it a bit as it goes on due to the angled teeth.

strategy400

Yes I'll dredge up this old thread. I think it does matter where the marks are on the rear balance shaft pulley housing. Why else would they be there? If you manage to get the shaft locked into the correct position via the service port then the pulley mark(s) should be as in this pic. The dot aligns with the rib on the housing and there is a 'V' on the pulley flange at the top that also aligns with a pointer on the housing not shown here (the V is shown but not the pointer). Depending on what you used to lock the shaft there may be a little play so align it in the center of that play. It takes some doing to get the pulley housing installed and properly aligned guiding/keeping the gears, dowels, seal etc. where they belong (PITA!). Good luck.

holmesnmanny

Just some more advice, even if you lock the rear shaft with the correct bolt, the v at the top will actually line up kinda weird with the marks(not shown in the previous post illustration)...when locked, there is a notch both to the right and left...however you will find when you put the belt on the front shaft and the crank shaft, it will either go slightly off the right mark or if you move the rear shaft one tooth counterclockwise it will line up better with the left notch. You want the left notch. Just try both spots and you will see the left notch is still within both notches, while if you put the tooth one clockwise over it will come off both notches.

I actually did it the wrong way before and the vibration was atrocious, however I actually drove it like that for a couple days til I could get the time to move it back one tooth counterclockwise where it would line up better and properly. It is possible to drive with the balance shaft out of time as it will not affect the timing belt but it will have a bad vibration and you would be better off not even having a balance shaft belt than having one with the timing off.

On my h22a the circle pointer shown at the bottom right doesn't have anything to line up with.

strategy400

Thanks for the good info.
My goal is to put it back to like it was before I took it apart. When I had The engine at TDC (Checked the crank gear and cam marks aligned to head surface with a mirror, everything lined up perfectly) the dot on the pulley in the image looked exactly like what you see there. The front balance shaft pulley marks also lined up perfectly. If
I get it back like that after tensioning (all marks dead on), I think it should be OK.

jmlarios13

Fast forward 3 years later to 2016.. Any of you actually removed the oil pump housing to replace the o-rings on the back of the pump? I did, and now I'm trying to put it back together but, after I feed the rear balancer shaft thru the cylindrical hole on the oil pump housing, it locks the rear balancer shut. This prevents it from spinning of course, and we need it to spin. Any of you have experience with this? Am I doing something wrong here? I can fit the rear shaft thru the hole mentioned, but there's no clearance for the balancer shaft so it fits tight and thus, won't spin at all.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,

holmesnmanny

Can you provide a clear video showing what's going on so we can see exactly how it's fitting together ?

Also exactly what parts are new ?

jmlarios13

Here you go, a bit lengthy but more descriptive, the problem's seen towards the end of the video. please excuse the low volume and crappy video editing. The o-rings are new, the oil pump, shafts and hardware are all existing. The car was working perfectly before I started the timing belt job which I did purely as a maintenance and not repair. In fact, even before I removed the pump the gear spun normally. Aside for the oil leak, the engine is pretty good.

You can view the video here:
https://youtu.be/y6vEod8lj8Q

Thanks for your help.

holmesnmanny

it says unavailable

jmlarios13

hmmm, works fine on this end. Try this one
https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=y6vEod8lj8Q

holmesnmanny

now it says its a private video

jmlarios13

sorry my bad, don't know how that happened, it's public now.

holmesnmanny

There are dowel pins that help align and space the oil pump to the block. Are you sure you got "all" the dowel pins installed properly ?

http://www.hondapartscheap.com/auto-...-strainer-scat

jmlarios13

yes I believe so, someone else had suggested that so I checked to ensure I hadn't lost any and that they're aligned. You ever see something like this?

holmesnmanny

No, can't say that I have. Have you looked at the diagram in the link I provided and confirmed you can account for all the parts in it ? Especially part 24.

The thing about it is that we don't see you remove the screwdriver after installing the oil pump so we can see the shaft still doesn't move. I don't question you when you say it doesn't move but it would be nice to see.