The Jar

99 EX 2DR 4 cyl. I recently changed the timing belt and since then the car is weak at low RPMS. It seems it is even misfiring I compared the cam markers with the crankshaft pulley-plastic cover and it look right. I did no check again the onec under the plastic cover.

The car does not show any OBD codes, has new spark plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor, 93 octane fuel, new air filter and adjusted valves.
I know how neatly the engine should be running it is just not right.

Any ideas expect taking it apart to look at the timing belt again?

poorman212

One thing before going back under the tb cover, have/do you have a timing light. What is it telling you. It is strange that it happened after the belt change, a tooth can make a big difference.

SemperFixit

It sounds like you may be a tooth off, Poorman212 has you off to a good start, start with a timing light. The other alternative is to make sure your #1 cylinder is at TDC on compression stroke, then check your alignment on your crank then the cam markers. I did this once on a old buick, it turns out that you can run 180 degrees off and still run, I experienced overheating issues though, and you didnt mention that your temp was running hotter than normal. My bet is on the timing...best of luck

The Jar

I will have to check the timing belt. It is just take too much time. On the other side I do not have any heat problem or starting problems. The lower part of the RPM range is so sluggish and the engine does not work right to me.

Is it somehow possible than I have the balancer on the marker but it got turned inside by 180? When you work on it you are supposed to block the balancer and I remember there was something funny going on with it.

HonBeer

93 octane is a waste of money unless your driving a NSX. Sounds like the typical 1 or two tooth off on the timing belt.

The Jar

Then I will have to get back to the timing belt.

As far as 93 octane goes I tested it before on a Toyota and Nissan I was getting 10-20% better mileage driving a mix of highway and city. The engine seemed to run smoother too. I have a fairly heavy foot... At the end of the day the cost of driving on a high octane fuel was the same or mininimaly lower with slightly better performance of the engine. It also helps to keep the engine in good condition.

I will make another test this time on Honda and see how it goes.

The Jar

I checked the timing belt again and I do not see any problem with that. I even made an attempt to move it one tooth and it clearly was not correct.
I changed the air filter again. The engine is slugish and a bit erratic on low RPMs. It definately lacks power.

Open for new ideas. throttle body cleaning, EGR cleaning? what about Vtec valve?

poorman212

What did the timing light tell you? I believe that you have to jump the connector (at least on a 95 EX 4 cyl) before checking it. Please refer to the correct procedure for a 99.
Have an 89 that experienced the same kind of thing. I believe the person before me got a tooth off and used the dist to make up for it. Checked the timing after I replaced the belt and the timing was off, noticed the dist was as far over as it would go. Reset it and been running great since.

The Jar

I stripped it down all the way to the timing belts and checked all the marks. They were correct. I have a feeling that while working on the timing belt I touched a sensor or I do not know, a vacum line?

I did the timing belt already once and it was fine and had the normal power, than the brand new water pump broke and had to do it again. Now it feels like driving a weak civic.

professorman

When I did my timing belt, my car was SUPER sluggish with the proper timing adjustment. The power kicked in ridiculously high after 3k RPM though and the engine screamed to be revved about that. I hated it though. Me and my mechanic couldnt figure it out because the timing was correct.

Later, we adjusted it to be 1 tooth off, and man, the car drove just like it did before. It puzzled us. The timing had to be purposefully off for the car to drive normal. I just dont worry about it. Try going +/- 1 and see if you have any change.

The Jar

Mine gets the power after 3k RPM but it was always the case.

double b from wv

this sounds a lot like my problem with the 91 accord. on mine though, the problem was present when i bought the car. but since then, i have put on a new t-belt, plugs, dist & rotor, fuel lines & filter, 89 octane, removed cat., etc., but nothing seemed to help it out. nothing but bog until about 2k+ on the tach! it actually slowed down when you give it more gas!

someone on this forum suggested to me that i look towards the EGR system, so i pulled the valve, which was pretty much blocked off with carbon. i cleaned it out with carb cleaner and put it back on. it helped out a lot, but the problem still comes and goes.

but as i was looking into the egr system, i ran across a how-to about cleaning out the egr ports on the intake, as well as the valve itself. on my car, you have to bore holes in metal plugs and use a slide hammer to remove them (which didnt work out the first try, so i still need to get that done). but on the 94+, i think, they changed the setup so that there is a metal cover on the intake runners that you can remove to easily access the egr ports for cleaning.

given that nothing else i'd tried made a difference, but cleaning just the egr valve helped, im now pretty sure i've found the root of the problem. i just need to get those ports cleared, and i think it will run alright.

since your car is a newer one, the process should be pretty easy... and cheap!

EDIT: here's the link to that egr cleaning guide... 94+ pic on pg 8.

http://home.comcast.net/~em-engineering/T2T013.pdf

holmesnmanny

Make sure you're shorting the connector when you're doing your timing with your timing light.

The Jar

I changed the oil. Some of the power of especially mid and high range rpm came back. What does it suggest?

HonBeer

Clogged CAT?

double b from wv

if the cat was clogged bad enough to make the engine run poorly, wouldnt it throw a CEL for the downstream O2 sensor?

just a thought.. i dont know.

HonBeer

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...tos/aut12.shtm

02 accord

That suggests that you had old/shitty oil. Duh.

The Jar

Last time changed about 3k miles ago so no "duh". I also several times cranked the engine well. Seemed to me like something was clogged and now it's better but what?

double b from wv

about how much oil did you drain out of it when changed? if it was real low it could reduce power.

also, are you changing the filter when you do the oil.... or changing at its own reasonable intervals, at least? if the oil was only 3k old, but bad enough to cause power loss (from sludging, i assume... if it wasnt just low), it makes me think "bad filter" off the top of my head.

and finally, what brand/weigh have you been putting in there? do you stick with one brand, or just grab whatever's cheapest at the time?

(just trying to cover all bases... dont be offended if the questions seem dumb or basic.)

EDIT: i have been cranking the hell out of my accord due to a bad coil, but my oil doesnt look worse than usual after several thousand miles. im no expert in the field, but i would reason that cranking the engine over at a relatively low speed would be less wear on the oil than a car idling at ~600k, or cruising at 2.5k. im thinking that the lower rpm means less strokes in the engine, and the less wear and breakdown of the oil. now, if your car isnt firing some times, like mine right now, and you have a lot of unburnt fuel passing the ring and mixing with oil, that could be another issue. but if its just hard starting due to some other reason, i dont think it would be any harder on the oil than normal. i could be wrong though.

The Jar

I drained the the right-amount about 4 1/2qt. the oil was well black but it is like that always. The engine sometimes takes some, sometimes not. I do not know why and when. It does not leak. It burns more fuel than it should I think. The smoke is not bluish for sure, I do however have a bit of black residue on the end pipe. 145k miles
I use Castrol GTX 5W30 or Mobile 1, mineral. I always change the oil filter with oil. Otherwise it does not make sense. I do not use the cheapest filters.

HonBeer

Myth If regular-grade fuel is good, premium must be better.
Reality Most vehicles run just fine on regular-grade (87 octane) fuel. Using premium in these cars won't hurt, but it won't improve performance, either. A higher-octane number simply means that the fuel is less prone to pre-ignition problems, so it's often specified for hotter running, high-compression engines. So if your car is designed for 87-octane fuel, don't waste money on premium.

The Jar

Well at this point I do not want to shift the discussion toward low/high octane. I'll be happy if I can fix the problem while running on either of them.

joe_accord23

scary ****, makes me not want to upgrade my belt..so wut wuz the real problem then?

professorman

As I said, with my timing 1 tooth off, I have plenty of low power. I only drive below 3k RPM, so its not a big deal for me. I do have enough power at higher RPMs as well, but I hardly go there unless I am merging into high speed traffic. I tow a trailer with my car sometimes, pulling a jetski and I have way enough pulling power.

I could not live with the lack of low end power with the correct timing adjustment. Maybe something is different with my car, but I am perfectly fine driving with my current timing adjustment, and it feels more stock-like than what it would have been. I get 31- 32MPG on the interstate, and 27 in the city. For me, as long as I am getting stock fuel economy, I take it that my car is in good running condition.