themiz816

Im getting a p1399 code for clogged egr ports. The engine is misfiring and feels like its gonna die at stops. I previously replaced the iacv before i got the p1399 code. I looked at a youtube video from ericthecarguy on how to clean out the ports, but every video i find has a plate to remove under the fuel rail next to the egr valve. I thought all of the 1998-2002 models had that upper plenum plate. Is there a thread or video for cleaning egr ports on the 1998 if i dont have that plate. Please help!

Fitz Williams

iTrader: (1)

The F23A1 has one port that goes from the EGR valve to the plenum. It is completely different from the F22 intake. To properly clean it you probably should remove the plenum from the intake. Much easier than cleaning a F22A but not as easy as a F22B.

Veggie Man

iTrader: (2)

Theres no plate, thats the f22 youre seeing. I may repeat what fitz says but if you take off the upper manifold you can get a bit more room to run a wire brush through there. Just take that and the EGR off and get some TB cleaner in there. You also may want to replace the EGR. Make sure the vacuums to the EGR and associated solenoids are secure.

bluesky1guy

Emissions test requires me to solve this EGR issue. I've been dreading this for over a year, but it sounds like the F-23-A1 won't be as difficult as a lot of earlier models that required drilling and slide hammers. I pulled the EGR valve and cleaned it with carb cleaner, applied a 9 volt battery to pins 4 and 6 of the valve, but didn't see any movement of the pintel. Knowing that it wanted 12 volts I didn't worry too much. Put it back on the car and hoped the CEL wouldn't return. No such luck. So tomorrow I'll pull the EGR again, the plenum/throttle body assembly, and clean out the port with carb cleaner and wire brushes. Also got a cheap siphon pump to suck the cleaner and gunk out after I (hopefully) loosen it up inside that portion of the IM. I'm guessing there will also be carbon gunk blocking the path to the throttle body which will get gone. New gaskets for the IM and the EGR, new vacuum hoses, and my fingers crossed that this clears the dreaded P0401 and P1491 codes. Since this is an ancient thread I don't expect anybody will notice, but if you should see this and know any secrets, I'd be very grateful to hear them before I get my IM gasket at 3pm tomorrow. Heck, I'd even take some encouraging words from anybody who's ever started a project they didn't know how to finish. I guess this is just what problem solvers do.

Lost Again

I thought the FAQ thread on this also had pic's of the F23 cleaning?

bluesky1guy

It's so easy to procrastinate. The 15 day grace period to re-inspect for no additional charge runs out today, so finally today I will clean the EGR ports and the valve.

No thread that I can find in FAQ (or anywhere else) for 4 cylinder V-Tech port cleaning on 1998-2002 Honda Accords (6th Gen). All for 6 cylinder or 5th Gen, so I'm going to try to take some photo's while I work and upload them with any comments or knowledge I gain. (I've never attempted to upload a photo either, but that learning curve doesn't scare me cause if it doesn't work I won't be walking).

tim73

Lost Again

Scroll down ~post #20 shows a 6th gen 4 cyl.....https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/diy-fix-all-had-p0401-code-2674082/

Still not much of a write up so feel free to make one.

bluesky1guy

My car is a 1998 Honda Accord 4 cylinder V-Tech. LX (I think) Engine code stamped on the front of the block F-23-A1. Automatic transmission.

Re: Lost Again post - I just looked at that, and you're right. Post 20 was a long way to go when the first posts were about the wrong car, so I didn't see it before I did the job. That photo is exactly the problem. I believe the JAM inside the plenum was the biggest part of my problem. Can't really say for sure, but my feeling is that the actual runner from the egr valve though the intake manifold was restricted but not completely blocked. But, the 1 inch inside the plenum was a total blockage.

Cleaning this exhaust flow system solved my problem.

The car had around 150,000 miles when the check engine light came on, and 167,000 now. I have to say, it ran remarkably well without a working exhaust gas recirculation system. I would not have been motivated to fix it if the emissions test did not require it. I bought the car with 140,000 miles so I don't know if the problem ever surfaced before.

Here's what I did. (I'm going to give too many steps, kinda like if I was telling my little sister how to do it. Sorry if it's too much)

1. Opened the passenger side fuse box and pulled the #13 fuse. (7.5 Amps for clock and back up lights). I waited a minute, they say 10 seconds, and replaced the fuse. This resets the computer so it won't use old information to try to tune the motor when the EGR starts working.

2. Pulled the big plastic air intake tube out (noticing the little pipe that connects to it, because at the end of the job when everything is connected again that pipe made me think I'd missed something)

3. I already had multiple colors of tape so I started removing vacuum hoses from the intake plenum and marking them so I would be 100% certain of returning them to the right spot. (Some are made so they can't be confused, I think I marked 4 hoses before it was all said and done).

4. To make clearance for the front EGR Valve nut I had to remove electrical clips from the 2 fuel injectors closest to the EGR, unclip the wiring harness for that assembly, and push it toward the front of the car to get a 13mm socket on a 4 in extension to the nut.
These 2 nuts are soft metal, and were really tight. Use a 6 sided socket. Take out the EGR valve.

5. I wasted a lot of time here. I attempted to remove the bottom half of the EGR Valve and soak it in Berrymans. It didn't go well. I didn't screw it up, but this valve is not the target. I suggest a coffee can with exactly enough fuel system cleaner to immerse the mechanical chamber at the bottom (I'm guessing 3/4 inch). Let it soak while doing the rest of the job, and swish it around a few times. You don't want to get liquid in the top half of this part. It's electronics.

6. There are various connectors and sensors connected to the plenum and throttle body that are all easy to remove and remember.

7.Some other hoses contained coolant. They're bigger than the vacuum hoses, and leaked some coolant that I caught with a towel

8. Between the plenum and the firewall is the Idle Air Control Valve. It has a water hose that (from my experience) cannot be easily removed. 2 bolts attach this valve to the back of the plenum. I removed it. Ideally one should replace the o-ring type gasket before re-installation. I didn't know to get one in advance. Hope it doesn't leak.

9. 3 bolts and 2 nuts - 13mm - connect the plenum to the intake manifold. I did not remove the bracket for the accelerator and cruise control cables. I did not disconnect the throttle body from the plenum. Flip the plenum over, set it on the valve cover, and clean out the gunk that has plugged the port on the passenger side. I used a flathead screwdriver for most of it, and a little screwdriver, carb spray, and rags to get it really clean. I was surprised how clogged up this was.

10. Under the EGR valve are 2 holes. The round one allows exhaust gasses from the motor to be sucked into the EGR valve. I wonder if I should have cleaned this hole. I was afraid liquid and gunk might get into a bad place, so I plugged it with a rag.
The other hole (square) connects the EGR valve to the intake plenum. I cleaned this very thoroughly with carb cleaner and cylindrical wire brushes. Filled it up with cleaning fluid, let it soak for 10 minutes, and ran brushes through it from both ends. Used a little cheap siphon pump with a squeeze ball to evacuate the liquid. I did this three times. Then cut patches from an old oxford shirt, wrapped the smallest brush, and ran material through till dry (and not perfectly clean). Used a vacuum cleaner to suck out any left over particles. Went a little overboard and used a clean piece of the siphon pump tubing to go inside the port and get some more (if there was any, probably not).

11.Take the EGR valve out of the cleaning fluid. I tested it with a meter. The top row has 3 pins. Can't find my notes, but 2 to 5 ohms between 1 and 2, same for 1 and 3. I applied 12 volts to pins 4 and 6. Positive to 4, negative to 6. I expected it to move the pintel (open the valve), it didn't. That discouraged me considerably. But I've got to have a running car, and I knew it would run stopped up, so I decided to re-install it.

I think this is where a shop manual would say something like put the stuff back on in reverse of taking it off.
I previously bought the gasket for the EGR valve, and the intake plenum when I bought a bottle of Berryman's, and a can of carb spray. New gaskets are cheap, and I like knowing that if it doesn't work at least it isn't for lack of a gasket.

Bottom line, I've driven the car 40 miles, about half and half, and the Check Engine Light has not returned. This was a big undertaking for me. I'm freaking delighted that the car started, and a little amazed that the light hasn't come back. I hope I don't have to do this again. If I do get the P0401 code again (in 50k miles) I will try to cheat before doing the whole job again. I'll pull the 5 bolts and nuts that hold down the plenum and only remove whichever hoses or wires that prohibit me from lifting the plenum off the intake manifold. I'd put a towel over the intake manifold and scrape the gunk out of that critical 1 inch of the plenum being careful not to get trash in the intake.
Pull the #13 fuse to reset the computer, and see what I get.

Final thought - I think my car burns a little oil. I'm guessing that recirculating exhaust gasses back through the intake puts some oil in places that engineering designers didn't expect. That probably contributes to this problem.

Lost Again

For the oil burning, when was the last time the poor old pcv was changed?

Just me and take this how you want. A space between steps might help people follow the post better.

bluesky1guy

Thanks to both suggestions. Each valid.
I don't know the history of the PCV. Probably deserves a new one.
Do you know how I can tell if it's used up, or how many miles I should expect it to work?

I'm pretty proud of myself for my work on this EGR issue. It passed emissions tests, and I learned my way around the engine a bit. Only had this car 1.5 years. It's given me no trouble, but it's 4 years younger than my last 2 cars, so there's a lot to learn.

Lost Again, I quoted your signature - "I can explain it to you, I CANNOT understand it for you".
Is that yours? It's perfect for my world.

Lost Again

I forget where I saw/read that - it fits every now and then

Glad the car is back in order.

PCV are cheap and should be considered a wear item and replaced as part of a tune up, so it can't hurt to go ahead and replace it.