JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
05-04-2010, 03:02 PM
#1
JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
Ok guys, my current engine has a voracious appetite for headgaskets and I think that it is headed for the smelter.
Anyways, I'm looking at possible swaps for th car. I've narrowed it down to several conclusions. Due to financial restrictions, I will be doing a long block only swap, (that and it doesn't make any sense to toss a perfectly good transmission).
I have also narrowed my choice of engines down to one of 2.
The JDM H22a and the JDM F22B (for those of you that don't know this motor was put in a japanese prelude submodel in the mid 90's. It's got similar specs to the H22, 166hp/150 trq and DOHC.
The H22 is attractive because it produces more horsepower, and has Vtec, which is always a good thing. Not to mention parts are very common for it. Also there is a lot of knowledge on the swap, as it is one of the most common.
However the F22B is a simpler swap (minimal ECU rewiring necessary), and a longblock motor is roughly half the price of an H22, and would still be a significant upgrade from my stock F22B2 powerplant (130 hp/139 trq), not to mention a lower compression ratio not requiring premium fuel. It's also lighter weight (less of a nose dive/understeer issue)
I would like to hear from those of you that have done either swap. Advantages and disadvantages to both. However mostly what I want to know about it the peripheral costs associated with the swaps. I know with the H22 you need to get the mid pipe cut and flange re welded, as well as a new p/s line.
Essentially I want to hear the pros and cons of the swap (specifically the peripheral expenses associated with each swap ex. power steering line fabrication, exhaust modifications etc, timing belt/water pump replacement). That way I can make an informed decision about which motor to put in the car from a performance vs cost point. Parts availability and cost for both engines etc.
Also there is the prospect of swapping in the F22b to get me by in the next few years to an H22 swap at a later date. Engine resale value?
If you have something stupid to say like "H22 cuz it hazz teh Vtecks!" don't waste my time.
Anyways, I'm looking at possible swaps for th car. I've narrowed it down to several conclusions. Due to financial restrictions, I will be doing a long block only swap, (that and it doesn't make any sense to toss a perfectly good transmission).
I have also narrowed my choice of engines down to one of 2.
The JDM H22a and the JDM F22B (for those of you that don't know this motor was put in a japanese prelude submodel in the mid 90's. It's got similar specs to the H22, 166hp/150 trq and DOHC.
The H22 is attractive because it produces more horsepower, and has Vtec, which is always a good thing. Not to mention parts are very common for it. Also there is a lot of knowledge on the swap, as it is one of the most common.
However the F22B is a simpler swap (minimal ECU rewiring necessary), and a longblock motor is roughly half the price of an H22, and would still be a significant upgrade from my stock F22B2 powerplant (130 hp/139 trq), not to mention a lower compression ratio not requiring premium fuel. It's also lighter weight (less of a nose dive/understeer issue)
I would like to hear from those of you that have done either swap. Advantages and disadvantages to both. However mostly what I want to know about it the peripheral costs associated with the swaps. I know with the H22 you need to get the mid pipe cut and flange re welded, as well as a new p/s line.
Essentially I want to hear the pros and cons of the swap (specifically the peripheral expenses associated with each swap ex. power steering line fabrication, exhaust modifications etc, timing belt/water pump replacement). That way I can make an informed decision about which motor to put in the car from a performance vs cost point. Parts availability and cost for both engines etc.
Also there is the prospect of swapping in the F22b to get me by in the next few years to an H22 swap at a later date. Engine resale value?
If you have something stupid to say like "H22 cuz it hazz teh Vtecks!" don't waste my time.
05-04-2010, 03:43 PM
#2
Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
H22 cuz it haz teh Vtaks
- you don't need a new power steering line
- the wiring is not that much more difficult with the thousands of guides out there on the internet and Accord FAQ
- if you're complaining about premium fuel then you shouldn't be spending $2000 on a swap
- the weight is not an issue (I noticed no change from F22B1 to H22A)
- pay the extra bit (~$300) and get the LSD tranny M2B4
- timing belt/water pump is stupid easy while the motor is sitting on the floor before you put it in
- I paid $30 for a shop to modify the H22A header to work with my stock Accord exhaust
If you pay a shop to do everything but supply the parts, expect to pay them around $2000 for just the shop (maintenance items, wiring, etc)
Expect to pay around $1000-1500 in parts, and don't skimp. Replace everything you need to and do it right the first time (injectors, plugs, wires, belts, seals, etc)
I paid around $4500 for everything after said and done. That was an H22A full swap, all the maintenance parts installed, and did most of the wiring myself. I later chipped my own P28 (saved a lot there) but loved the car.
H22A, parts are easily bought (95 Prelude VTEC) and drop in just fine, I have no idea what parts you would use in an F22B.
Please search though, before you ask about anything I just posted. This H22A vs turbo F22b2 vs F20B vs ____ is discussed 20 times over. HondaSociety has a H-series section that's Accord oriented so you can read there as well.
- you don't need a new power steering line
- the wiring is not that much more difficult with the thousands of guides out there on the internet and Accord FAQ
- if you're complaining about premium fuel then you shouldn't be spending $2000 on a swap
- the weight is not an issue (I noticed no change from F22B1 to H22A)
- pay the extra bit (~$300) and get the LSD tranny M2B4
- timing belt/water pump is stupid easy while the motor is sitting on the floor before you put it in
- I paid $30 for a shop to modify the H22A header to work with my stock Accord exhaust
If you pay a shop to do everything but supply the parts, expect to pay them around $2000 for just the shop (maintenance items, wiring, etc)
Expect to pay around $1000-1500 in parts, and don't skimp. Replace everything you need to and do it right the first time (injectors, plugs, wires, belts, seals, etc)
I paid around $4500 for everything after said and done. That was an H22A full swap, all the maintenance parts installed, and did most of the wiring myself. I later chipped my own P28 (saved a lot there) but loved the car.
H22A, parts are easily bought (95 Prelude VTEC) and drop in just fine, I have no idea what parts you would use in an F22B.
Please search though, before you ask about anything I just posted. This H22A vs turbo F22b2 vs F20B vs ____ is discussed 20 times over. HondaSociety has a H-series section that's Accord oriented so you can read there as well.
05-04-2010, 04:09 PM
#3
Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
H22 cuz it haz teh Vtaks
- you don't need a new power steering line
- the wiring is not that much more difficult with the thousands of guides out there on the internet and Accord FAQ
- if you're complaining about premium fuel then you shouldn't be spending $2000 on a swap
- the weight is not an issue (I noticed no change from F22B1 to H22A)
- pay the extra bit (~$300) and get the LSD tranny M2B4
- timing belt/water pump is stupid easy while the motor is sitting on the floor before you put it in
- I paid $30 for a shop to modify the H22A header to work with my stock Accord exhaust
If you pay a shop to do everything but supply the parts, expect to pay them around $2000 for just the shop (maintenance items, wiring, etc)
Expect to pay around $1000-1500 in parts, and don't skimp. Replace everything you need to and do it right the first time (injectors, plugs, wires, belts, seals, etc)
I paid around $4500 for everything after said and done. That was an H22A full swap, all the maintenance parts installed, and did most of the wiring myself. I later chipped my own P28 (saved a lot there) but loved the car.
H22A, parts are easily bought (95 Prelude VTEC) and drop in just fine, I have no idea what parts you would use in an F22B.
Please search though, before you ask about anything I just posted. This H22A vs turbo F22b2 vs F20B vs ____ is discussed 20 times over. HondaSociety has a H-series section that's Accord oriented so you can read there as well.
- you don't need a new power steering line
- the wiring is not that much more difficult with the thousands of guides out there on the internet and Accord FAQ
- if you're complaining about premium fuel then you shouldn't be spending $2000 on a swap
- the weight is not an issue (I noticed no change from F22B1 to H22A)
- pay the extra bit (~$300) and get the LSD tranny M2B4
- timing belt/water pump is stupid easy while the motor is sitting on the floor before you put it in
- I paid $30 for a shop to modify the H22A header to work with my stock Accord exhaust
If you pay a shop to do everything but supply the parts, expect to pay them around $2000 for just the shop (maintenance items, wiring, etc)
Expect to pay around $1000-1500 in parts, and don't skimp. Replace everything you need to and do it right the first time (injectors, plugs, wires, belts, seals, etc)
I paid around $4500 for everything after said and done. That was an H22A full swap, all the maintenance parts installed, and did most of the wiring myself. I later chipped my own P28 (saved a lot there) but loved the car.
H22A, parts are easily bought (95 Prelude VTEC) and drop in just fine, I have no idea what parts you would use in an F22B.
Please search though, before you ask about anything I just posted. This H22A vs turbo F22b2 vs F20B vs ____ is discussed 20 times over. HondaSociety has a H-series section that's Accord oriented so you can read there as well.
Essentially I am trying to get an idea of power and economy. I was eventually planning to swap the engine in the car. Unfortunately it looks like it will have to be sooner rather than later.
05-04-2010, 07:11 PM
#5
Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
Anyone have any experience with the F22B?
Transmissions cost money, money i don't have. I have money for a longblock, not enough for a total driveline swap.
Transmissions cost money, money i don't have. I have money for a longblock, not enough for a total driveline swap.
05-04-2010, 07:55 PM
#6
Honda-Tech Member
Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
i have one in my garage waiting to be dropped in my coupe.. i had a buddy who
had one in his cd5 and said he kept up with a gti when they raced. he had a lx 5
spd and an intake with stock downpipe and magnaflow muffler and 6 puck disk.
idk if this is true. it could be could not. however i know that they run well and
have some good torque. if you like vtec get the h22... thats one thing i will miss
but im boosting mine. as close to an h23 as you will get without the 87mm bore.
had one in his cd5 and said he kept up with a gti when they raced. he had a lx 5
spd and an intake with stock downpipe and magnaflow muffler and 6 puck disk.
idk if this is true. it could be could not. however i know that they run well and
have some good torque. if you like vtec get the h22... thats one thing i will miss
but im boosting mine. as close to an h23 as you will get without the 87mm bore.
05-05-2010, 06:34 AM
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
Go H22. You won't regret it man. I'm glad that I bought mine. Mine probably ran me like $2500.00 in total with maintenance and the T2T4 LSD trans(I bought it separately).
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12-08-2010, 07:21 PM
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Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
Swapped my h23b 94 prelude for a jpn f22.Used top end for CA smog.Hard to tell the difference in power. Internal parts are different,(oil pump comes from Accord). Lower comp ratio , better for turbo. I hear it is a stronger engine. jymjon
02-10-2011, 01:17 PM
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Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
hello im new to this site. i have a 92 prelude with a F22B dohc non v-tec engine i recently changed the timing belt and balancer belt but could not change the water pump and now the water pump is finished i think the bearings just gave up. to find parts for this engine is a pain, the timing belt i had to use was from a 1988 dodge caravan, prefect fit but no matter what water pump i try they dont have the right gear(pulley) on them the one off the accord has a larger diameter on the gear(pulley) so i dont know if i should put it in and it also has one extra tooth on the gear. someone told me to use the h23 belt and water pump and it should fit!!! im really stuck and would appreciate any help with this
what water pump would work and with what belt !! jdm engine
thank you
what water pump would work and with what belt !! jdm engine
thank you
07-11-2012, 08:31 PM
#14
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Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
i got an f22b. not a b1 or b2. form the 92 prelude si. anyway. someone did the swap already when i got the car, and it couldnt of cost too much. the f22b sure beats some vtecs ive been in. the f22b is pretty rare.. and aparently u can upgrade it pretty good. i wouldnt trade it for any other engine.
07-13-2012, 10:08 AM
#15
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Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
H22 cuz it haz teh Vtaks
- you don't need a new power steering line
- the wiring is not that much more difficult with the thousands of guides out there on the internet and Accord FAQ
- if you're complaining about premium fuel then you shouldn't be spending $2000 on a swap
- the weight is not an issue (I noticed no change from F22B1 to H22A)
- pay the extra bit (~$300) and get the LSD tranny M2B4
- timing belt/water pump is stupid easy while the motor is sitting on the floor before you put it in
- I paid $30 for a shop to modify the H22A header to work with my stock Accord exhaust
If you pay a shop to do everything but supply the parts, expect to pay them around $2000 for just the shop (maintenance items, wiring, etc)
Expect to pay around $1000-1500 in parts, and don't skimp. Replace everything you need to and do it right the first time (injectors, plugs, wires, belts, seals, etc)
I paid around $4500 for everything after said and done. That was an H22A full swap, all the maintenance parts installed, and did most of the wiring myself. I later chipped my own P28 (saved a lot there) but loved the car.
H22A, parts are easily bought (95 Prelude VTEC) and drop in just fine, I have no idea what parts you would use in an F22B.
Please search though, before you ask about anything I just posted. This H22A vs turbo F22b2 vs F20B vs ____ is discussed 20 times over. HondaSociety has a H-series section that's Accord oriented so you can read there as well.
- you don't need a new power steering line
- the wiring is not that much more difficult with the thousands of guides out there on the internet and Accord FAQ
- if you're complaining about premium fuel then you shouldn't be spending $2000 on a swap
- the weight is not an issue (I noticed no change from F22B1 to H22A)
- pay the extra bit (~$300) and get the LSD tranny M2B4
- timing belt/water pump is stupid easy while the motor is sitting on the floor before you put it in
- I paid $30 for a shop to modify the H22A header to work with my stock Accord exhaust
If you pay a shop to do everything but supply the parts, expect to pay them around $2000 for just the shop (maintenance items, wiring, etc)
Expect to pay around $1000-1500 in parts, and don't skimp. Replace everything you need to and do it right the first time (injectors, plugs, wires, belts, seals, etc)
I paid around $4500 for everything after said and done. That was an H22A full swap, all the maintenance parts installed, and did most of the wiring myself. I later chipped my own P28 (saved a lot there) but loved the car.
H22A, parts are easily bought (95 Prelude VTEC) and drop in just fine, I have no idea what parts you would use in an F22B.
Please search though, before you ask about anything I just posted. This H22A vs turbo F22b2 vs F20B vs ____ is discussed 20 times over. HondaSociety has a H-series section that's Accord oriented so you can read there as well.
07-14-2012, 12:44 AM
#16
Honda-Tech Member
Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
Hi Guys,
The F20B and the H22 head are virtually identical, is this correct??
If so, can someone tell me the inlet port spacings please???
I am trying to see how close they are to say, motorcycle throttle body centrelines.
Thanks,
Tricky
The F20B and the H22 head are virtually identical, is this correct??
If so, can someone tell me the inlet port spacings please???
I am trying to see how close they are to say, motorcycle throttle body centrelines.
Thanks,
Tricky
07-14-2012, 12:58 AM
#17
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Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
JUST GO WITH THE H22A IM CURRENTLY DOING A SWAP ON MY 96 ACCORD I GOT A GOOD DEAL ON IT BUT RAN INTO SOME WIRING AND MONEY ISSUES IVE BEEN DOING RESEARCH ON THE H22 AND IM GLAD I GOT A HOLD OF ONE SO WILL YOU.
07-14-2012, 09:18 AM
#18
Honda-Tech Member
Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
Just get yourself a set of throttles that can be separated. IIRC the early Suzuki GSX-R 1000 and 99-07 Hybusa 1300 are actually individual throttles. The Honda CBR and newer GSX-R throttles are paired and can be separated to match inlets on mot fixed Honda manifolds.
The down side to most of these throttles is the throttle plate size. The largest plate is on the early GSX-R1000 and Hyabusa (1300) @ 46mm. Not the best option for a built 2.0-2.2L car engines.
I started off using a set of 46mm 03 GSX-R throttles but later came to find that they would be a bit small for my needs. They would have been OK for a stock F22 build. I opted for using 2 pairs of Ducati 999R throttles. They are 54mm @ the throttle plate.
Ducati Throttle Body build
Suzuki GSX-R1000 Throttle Body build
07-14-2012, 09:25 AM
#19
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Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
you do realize how old this thread is..this thread is back when our cars were worth twice as much as they are worth now
07-16-2012, 12:08 PM
#21
Honda-Tech Member
Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
Just get yourself a set of throttles that can be separated. IIRC the early Suzuki GSX-R 1000 and 99-07 Hybusa 1300 are actually individual throttles. The Honda CBR and newer GSX-R throttles are paired and can be separated to match inlets on mot fixed Honda manifolds.
The down side to most of these throttles is the throttle plate size. The largest plate is on the early GSX-R1000 and Hyabusa (1300) @ 46mm. Not the best option for a built 2.0-2.2L car engines.
I started off using a set of 46mm 03 GSX-R throttles but later came to find that they would be a bit small for my needs. They would have been OK for a stock F22 build. I opted for using 2 pairs of Ducati 999R throttles. They are 54mm @ the throttle plate.
Ducati Throttle Body build
Suzuki GSX-R1000 Throttle Body build
The down side to most of these throttles is the throttle plate size. The largest plate is on the early GSX-R1000 and Hyabusa (1300) @ 46mm. Not the best option for a built 2.0-2.2L car engines.
I started off using a set of 46mm 03 GSX-R throttles but later came to find that they would be a bit small for my needs. They would have been OK for a stock F22 build. I opted for using 2 pairs of Ducati 999R throttles. They are 54mm @ the throttle plate.
Ducati Throttle Body build
Suzuki GSX-R1000 Throttle Body build
Do you honestly think the throttle body bore sizes are too small? If you take a Hayabusa TB or a ZX 14 TB they run at 46mm. With these engines displacing 350cc per cylinder and screaming away at 13-14,000 rpm that's a lot of air moving in. I know that we displace more, 500cc per cylinder but we are only spinning at 8-8,500rpm!!
I should sit down and do the maths i suppose.
I know the OBX TB run at either 48mm or 52mm! Does anyone know what size bores the Kinsler TBs are?
Cheers,
Tricky
07-16-2012, 12:21 PM
#22
Honda-Tech Member
Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
Off the shelf Kinsler's Honda individual throttles don't come with anything smaller than 51mm diameter plate. Could be a reason for that!
Oh I did the math already and the 46mm would be fine for a stock 5500-6200k RPM power band as previously mentioned. Not much of a gain would be seen running 46mm on an 2.2L+ engine built to run higher PRMs though!
Originally Posted by Kinsler Fuel Injection
Seven throttle sizes: 51mm, 55mm, 57mm, 60mm, 62mm, 64mm, 67mm
Oh I did the math already and the 46mm would be fine for a stock 5500-6200k RPM power band as previously mentioned. Not much of a gain would be seen running 46mm on an 2.2L+ engine built to run higher PRMs though!
07-16-2012, 10:07 PM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
But surely the IM or TB inlet port size cant and wont be the restricor if it exceeds the head inlet port cross-sectional area??
As in, if the ITB port size is (for 54mm throttle bore) 4,580mm2 and the head port size is less than this then the bottleneck is not the ITB bore size...
Has anyone measure the CSA of the honda VTEC inlet port??
But yes I agree, in general terms - more air = more HP.
Oh, and your Ducati ITB's look the dukz nutz!!
As in, if the ITB port size is (for 54mm throttle bore) 4,580mm2 and the head port size is less than this then the bottleneck is not the ITB bore size...
Has anyone measure the CSA of the honda VTEC inlet port??
But yes I agree, in general terms - more air = more HP.
Oh, and your Ducati ITB's look the dukz nutz!!
07-17-2012, 01:02 PM
#24
Honda-Tech Member
Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
Thanks 
Are we talking about the 54mm throttles now as apposed to the 46mm that we were previously discussing as being too small?
The H22 intake and exhaust port are both larger than 1661.9mm˛ (area of a 46mm diameter throttle). Therefore a 46mm throttle would be the choke point. A 54mm throttle is a different story!
When looking into determining a good throttle size you also have to take into account the cross sectional area of the intake and exhaust valves as well. Most intake tracks taper from a larger area at the inlet of the intake down to a smaller area @ the valve throat. There is usually a ratio to be maintained based on what the engine is being built for. (RPM power range)
Now are you starting to see why I chose 54mm throttles over 46mm.
The Area of a 54mm throttle is rationally larger than that of my intake port and valve CSA.
Are we talking about the 54mm throttles now as apposed to the 46mm that we were previously discussing as being too small?
The H22 intake and exhaust port are both larger than 1661.9mm˛ (area of a 46mm diameter throttle). Therefore a 46mm throttle would be the choke point. A 54mm throttle is a different story!
When looking into determining a good throttle size you also have to take into account the cross sectional area of the intake and exhaust valves as well. Most intake tracks taper from a larger area at the inlet of the intake down to a smaller area @ the valve throat. There is usually a ratio to be maintained based on what the engine is being built for. (RPM power range)
Now are you starting to see why I chose 54mm throttles over 46mm.
The Area of a 54mm throttle is rationally larger than that of my intake port and valve CSA.
07-18-2012, 07:07 PM
#25
Honda-Tech Member
Re: JDM motors H22A vs F22B (DOHC)
Thanks
Are we talking about the 54mm throttles now as apposed to the 46mm that we were previously discussing as being too small?
The H22 intake and exhaust port are both larger than 1661.9mm˛ (area of a 46mm diameter throttle). Therefore a 46mm throttle would be the choke point. A 54mm throttle is a different story!
When looking into determining a good throttle size you also have to take into account the cross sectional area of the intake and exhaust valves as well. Most intake tracks taper from a larger area at the inlet of the intake down to a smaller area @ the valve throat. There is usually a ratio to be maintained based on what the engine is being built for. (RPM power range)
Now are you starting to see why I chose 54mm throttles over 46mm. The Area of a 54mm throttle is rationally larger than that of my intake port and valve CSA.
Are we talking about the 54mm throttles now as apposed to the 46mm that we were previously discussing as being too small?
The H22 intake and exhaust port are both larger than 1661.9mm˛ (area of a 46mm diameter throttle). Therefore a 46mm throttle would be the choke point. A 54mm throttle is a different story!
When looking into determining a good throttle size you also have to take into account the cross sectional area of the intake and exhaust valves as well. Most intake tracks taper from a larger area at the inlet of the intake down to a smaller area @ the valve throat. There is usually a ratio to be maintained based on what the engine is being built for. (RPM power range)
Now are you starting to see why I chose 54mm throttles over 46mm.
The Area of a 54mm throttle is rationally larger than that of my intake port and valve CSA.Yes was talking about the 46mm ITB's - a big difference of 628.25mm2 or 38%larger if you went to the 54mm ITB bore!!
Did you end up dyno'ing both sets of ITB's to get a measured and verified difference between the two??
Cheers,
Tricky