MoguMagic

1995 - 2.0l ES

Hi guys,

First post since Jan 2010 O.o'

Bit of a story

First off, Car had to have it's water pump replaced so i stripped it down and changed / rebuilt with the new water pump.

Back together is now i'm having a problem i don't beeeelive i had before the water pump replacement, BUT i do remember some strange behavior with the idle going "up and down then stopping when i drove a bit" just before the water pump started leaking out the bleed hole and i started this whole adventure.

Anyway. The now.

Car started with a jump from another car, Cut out 2 min after jump cables removed without load *never done this while i owned the car, always ticked over / run well* So jumped again after reseting any and all plugs ect i might have missed. Car restarted and stayed on for 30 min without load, but died few min later when i load tested with "lights, blowers, radio" thinking it was ok.

The voltage reading across the bat terminals was around 12.3 engine off.
On even weirder it goes up over 13.00v / got up to 14.00v on it's own.
Which to me means it charging i thought?

I used a voltage meter on the "+ bat" terminal and the main alternator output terminal "B" is showing absolutely no voltage engine on or off,
BUT... Putting the voltage meter on the alternator case housing / poked into the fins of the regulator. It's showing the Bat voltage O.o

Do i have a dud regulator?

Please if anyone has any advice, I was about to jump terminal "F" to the bat + and see if i can output any power at full output to see if it's just weak / on it's way out... *but thought rather than turning my alternator into a welder i would ask some experts first*

Best Regards
Matt

MoguMagic

Anyone ?

I've ordered a new alternator in the meantime.

poorman212

12.3 on that bat after sitting for sometime is a bit low (IIRC-12.5~12.6 is a 100% charged battery). If you check it right after the car has beed running it should def be higher...it just got thru charging.

From the main cable on the alt to GROUND-what is the voltage without and with load? When doing all the work, are you sure/double check everything is connected-grounds clean/tight-battery cables clean/tight at both ends.

MoguMagic

It did seem to get to 12.6/7 So i thought it was charging, But it still cuts out / doesn't want to start sometimes atm.

The main "B" cable going from the alt to ground, is showing no voltage what so ever as in first post which is worrying, I've checked the fuses, but does the "B" cable go straight to the bat without any fusible link ect ? it seems to go over the engine and under the back so having troubling following it to where it goes into fuse box / where on bat it joins. i will upload a few pics in a mo, i'll go out and get some fresh pics

poorman212

I'm still confused-not enough coffee yet this am....

Car off for at least 20~30 minutes-what is the voltage across the battery terminals.

Car running-what is the voltage from the main alt cable (under black boot-single wire) to ground. Your first post read like you measured from the alt to the positive of the battery???

There is a fuse in the underhood fuse panel.

MoguMagic

Nope you guys are on the right thinking... it was me :$

Ok forget the bit where i said no voltage *blush*, I was apparently one of the spanners in my tool box yesterday night when i was doing this last thing. I had it on the wrong terminal on the bat so no wonder no voltage *whoops*. i have a video of the whole situ now. i'm getting charge along the "B" line to the bat, It's looking like the alt reg is on its way out as it rises after ignition but doesn't stop it seems, bit high for my liking (17.0+ O.O) and as soon as i turn a load on "lamps, radio, blowers" it drops to (12.0ish) or below and stays there, so no wonder it dies on load but can idle until the fuel ran out yesterday i found out *blushes again* Starts all the time now i put fuel in it ¬.¬ so back to thinking it's the alt reg. Uploading video now. Might take a while with my upload speeds

MoguMagic

Forgot to mention the alt sounds like it's pulsing "werrr..werrr..werrr" i tightened the power steering pump as the belt was squealing at high revs and low revs, but i need to let it cool down before trying the alt swivel bolt / tensioner again as the alt is getting hot so can't undo the bolt yet *tomorrow now as dark*, thats all good now so i can hear the pulsing of the alt. maybe another sign ? or do they make that sound normally O.o ?

One of those things, don't remember it if sounded like that before.

MoguMagic

Video of problem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSogR05IVmg

I turn the lamps / blower / radio on ect at 2:39 and the voltage drops and doesn't rise again until i turn lamps off.

I do this a few more times if you keep an eye on the headlights and and eye on the multimeter.

The charge light is still on even tho the car is running and look to be charging, but 17.0v ? O.o is that normal that high

Bad Regulator ? / New Alt ?

nicolaselias

Out of curiousity which 2.0 engine do you have?

MoguMagic

F20/Z1

Oddest thing today is gave it a run, at it seems to be charging O.o

Battery held a charge all last night and was able to turn over and start it first time Voltage was (12.5). Voltage started coming down the "B" cable going up as soon as on Raised to over 13.5 up to 17.0 O.o then comes back down.

Put a load on with the lamps and it goes down but it started adjusting voltage higher again...

Do i have a ghost alt XD

MoguMagic

ooooo more interesting goings on. Just been out on the car again.

Car charges on idle, be it not great.
Revs up 2k, Charge goes up to 16/17.00v then goes down again and lvls out high enough to keep it charging.
Lamps on... Charge drops. The goes back up and lvls out.

Now the interesting bit.
Heaters on while lamps on and it drops and doesn't stop....

Hmmmm do i have an open circuit or do people still think it might be a "going bad" alternator ?

poorman212

I'm going with the alt. Going to 17...that is too high. Running without load, like to see 14.5 at the alt and or battery. Under load, take something in the 13v range.

Do you have any codes stored (ELD-I think code 20).

And sorry, slow at figuring out you must be in EU, not that it really matters. Changing the brushes and regulator while the alt is on the car isn't that bad.

MoguMagic

Cheers bro I've got a new ALT on the way. I will double check codes again tomorrow, Wrote them down but only noticed one that was telling me an ABS sensor wanted something, sorted it and reset ECU.

phootbag

Likely a faulty voltage regulator.

MoguMagic

Cool cool, So new alt was a good idea Built in on these models ¬.¬

MoguMagic

Hey guys,

Right, Changed the alternator. Charge is 14.5 all round with and without load. Looks fantastic, but need to get a new alt tensioner bolt. so for now it's holding and tight.

but... Battery light is still on O.o ?

What else could it be keeping this light on now ? i know the alt is fine now as its pumping out the right voltages.

I disconnected the neg term for 30 min to try and loose any codes ect.

Anyone else got any advice ?

phootbag

I've seen fautly alternators ruining the sensing circuit in the ECM causing the battery light to come on when there is no fault.

MoguMagic

Is there a fuseable link to check anywhere ? i have checked in the fuse box under the hood and not found any missing / blown fuse.

MoguMagic

Bump ? Is there any relays/fusible links for the bat / charge circuit under the passenger side to check ? Light is still on, Charge is all at lvls intended 14.5v, Lamp still illuminated.

Can i ground out a pin on the alternator to try and make the lamp go out ? Anyone know which one, From memory and some searching i believe it's the "L" spade on the side of the alt where the loom of the plug goes. "bottom right of all the spades on the alt with in place"

phootbag

The ECM is probably ruined. The only way to determine if the problem is the ECM is to eliminate all other possibilities. If the alternator puts out 14 + volts at idle and drops to battery voltage when the alt is outputing it's maximum amps rating, the ECM is probably faulty.

I've seen this a couple of times in my shop.

MoguMagic

Wasn't a problem before car was without bat for a month and everything else on car electronically works, Do they go bad being unplugged then and affect the bat light ? Is there a fusible link for this bat light to be on?. like if a fuse gone would it be illuminated ? i've checked under the hood fuse box, is there anything under the passenger side ?

phootbag

IF THE BATTERY LIGHT IS ON BUT THE ALTERNATOR WORKS THE PROBLEM IS LIKELY IN THE SENSING CIRCUIT AND MORE SPECIFICALLY IN THE ECM!

MoguMagic

So thats a no then to the passenger side anything to check....XD Easy to replace?, i've searched and it's come up with Electronic choke module and ECM as in the ECU ?

NEVER MIND just found out the ECM is in the passenger kick panel in my honda manual ugh so that answers itself really to start checking there really. rme

brk2586

Ok so check this one out about funky regulators:

91 civic lx 1.5l 186k

original alternator toasted. went economical and thought the pep boys rebuild would suffice. BIG MISTAKE. Put the rebuilt in, started the car, everything seemed ok, took a reading, and it was cranking out 18.0 VDC at idle, and 22 VDC at half throttle. Brought it back on the obvious. My recomendations? If you have a small amount of time on your hands and dont need to drive ASAP, Take your bum alternator to your local alternator shop, and let the old guy behind the counter hand-rebuild yours, doing what He's been doing with precision and care for 30 years. Came out beautifully.