h22a vs. f20b
11-25-2004, 04:47 AM
#28
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Re: (spooledu)
having owned 2 of the engines, had the f20b manual 200hp in my sir-t then followed by a euro-r h22a conversion. I find it funny that people can even say the f20b is like a b series engine, funny thing is have you guys even tried a car with a f20b2 200hp engine before?
The F20B was a great revver, I wreckon it had more potential to that of the 220hp H22A's like machine4321 has said. I found that at high speeds and we're talking 120km/h+ speeds, I find it to acctually pull just as hard as the 220hp euro-r engines, but the only thing I dind't really like was the gear ratio, the euro-r 220hp engines had a much better gear ratio where as the f20b would acctually nearly drop out of vtec from first to second gear but after second gear it's all magic. I find that second to third and to 4th is amazing, every gear is swift and can acctually keep up with those 220hp h22a motors, but other then that I have no idea why I changed anyway.
I guess main reason was coz I found a cheap wrecked euro-r from japan. The h22a I took from it is no doubt faster, but then again I do have better mods (4-1 1piece race extractros, kakimoto catback, chromolly 3.6kg flywheel and 3puck exedy racing clutch etc) where as the old f20b i had just 4-2-1's and 2x dtm exhausts. But overall the H22a is a better daily driver,
but the F20b is something with heaps of potential, another fact they made the F20 was also cause of the BTCC accords, the BTCC accords uses a F20 block as well.
I'm selling mine for round $2600-2700us, it's a 97 with 70k's new clutch etc, with lsd box, main problem is I'm not in the states.
and oh the h22a motor made a bit more power too, with i/h/e I got just about 150kw at the wheels using dyno dynamics machine.
where as f20b with overweight useless mods that acctually slowed it down got around 128kw at the wheels which is also pretty good considering the junk mods I had on it.
I'd say if you were going to go hardcore all motor F20B
and if you want a all good daily with basic mods then h22a and
if you want a good turbo engine, f22b all the way.
note: F20B and H22a extractors will bolt onto each other as they're the same, and camshafts etc head stuff are all interchangeble. F20B throttle bodies are a bit bigger then the normal h22a's but smaller then the 220hp throttle bodies.
but F22B extractors won't fit f20b or h22a's.
or else if anyone is crazy enough, H23 block + F20 head.
The F20B was a great revver, I wreckon it had more potential to that of the 220hp H22A's like machine4321 has said. I found that at high speeds and we're talking 120km/h+ speeds, I find it to acctually pull just as hard as the 220hp euro-r engines, but the only thing I dind't really like was the gear ratio, the euro-r 220hp engines had a much better gear ratio where as the f20b would acctually nearly drop out of vtec from first to second gear but after second gear it's all magic. I find that second to third and to 4th is amazing, every gear is swift and can acctually keep up with those 220hp h22a motors, but other then that I have no idea why I changed anyway.
I guess main reason was coz I found a cheap wrecked euro-r from japan. The h22a I took from it is no doubt faster, but then again I do have better mods (4-1 1piece race extractros, kakimoto catback, chromolly 3.6kg flywheel and 3puck exedy racing clutch etc) where as the old f20b i had just 4-2-1's and 2x dtm exhausts. But overall the H22a is a better daily driver,
but the F20b is something with heaps of potential, another fact they made the F20 was also cause of the BTCC accords, the BTCC accords uses a F20 block as well.
I'm selling mine for round $2600-2700us, it's a 97 with 70k's new clutch etc, with lsd box, main problem is I'm not in the states.
and oh the h22a motor made a bit more power too, with i/h/e I got just about 150kw at the wheels using dyno dynamics machine.
where as f20b with overweight useless mods that acctually slowed it down got around 128kw at the wheels which is also pretty good considering the junk mods I had on it.
I'd say if you were going to go hardcore all motor F20B
and if you want a all good daily with basic mods then h22a and
if you want a good turbo engine, f22b all the way.
note: F20B and H22a extractors will bolt onto each other as they're the same, and camshafts etc head stuff are all interchangeble. F20B throttle bodies are a bit bigger then the normal h22a's but smaller then the 220hp throttle bodies.
but F22B extractors won't fit f20b or h22a's.
or else if anyone is crazy enough, H23 block + F20 head.
11-26-2004, 01:39 AM
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Re: (TakeiTeg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TakeiTeg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">or else if anyone is crazy enough, H23 block + F20 head.</TD></TR></TABLE>
where do u live again??
where do u live again??
12-25-2004, 03:17 PM
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Re: h22a vs. f20b (allshowaccord91)
If you tuned a stock F20B(200whp) just as you would with an H22....
I'm sure you could reach the 215 mark just as easy.
F = Boost It!!!!
I'm sure you could reach the 215 mark just as easy.
F = Boost It!!!!
12-31-2004, 12:30 PM
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Re: h22a vs. f20b (AznMTboy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AznMTboy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">aint f20 is in the S2000.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I believe that would be the f20c.
I believe that would be the f20c.
01-04-2005, 10:53 PM
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Re: (jdmaccord23)
i totally have to agree with Mayhem, TakeiTeg, Machine4321, and sugarfree. i also have an F20b in my cd7 and i ******* love it. my buddy has an h22 cd7 and i pull on him simply because i rev higher. it is true that if you want more of a daily driven stock engine kind of thing, go with the h for availability of parts..Fs work very well with boost, but really...there isnt much of a diff. between the two when it comes down to output numbers. if you dont mind dealing with the "hassle" of converting it to obd1, then do it. if you dont mind haveing to order valves, pistons or rods direct from j's garage in japan, then do it. it really isnt much different. there are just a lot of haters out there that cant justify spending a little extra money for something that not everyone with an accord has.
01-05-2005, 01:31 AM
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Re: h22a vs. f20b (allshowaccord91)
My brother has a 90 accord 4 door that he swapped in a jdm f22b dual cam (non-vtec)with h22 tranny and ecu.... he had it installed with price of the motor for only like $1,400.... it has 160hp and 148 torque....another option for you and they come low enough compression that they will take a turbo with boost up to like 11psi without touching the motor....you could have an f22b turbo'd for the same price of an H22 swap....just another option for you.....
01-05-2005, 03:21 AM
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Re: (adio)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by adio »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i totally have to agree with Mayhem, TakeiTeg, Machine4321, and sugarfree. i also have an F20b in my cd7 and i ******* love it. my buddy has an h22 cd7 and i pull on him simply because i rev higher. it is true that if you want more of a daily driven stock engine kind of thing, go with the h for availability of parts..Fs work very well with boost, but really...there isnt much of a diff. between the two when it comes down to output numbers. if you dont mind dealing with the "hassle" of converting it to obd1, then do it. if you dont mind haveing to order valves, pistons or rods direct from j's garage in japan, then do it. it really isnt much different. there are just a lot of haters out there that cant justify spending a little extra money for something that not everyone with an accord has. </TD></TR></TABLE>
not to mention most haters never even tried both f20b and h22a in their cars before or even touched one.
Like someone mentioned, F20B is a hell of a engine that was designed for one reason, whcih was to give the BTCC and the mugen 2L race series a engine and also to make grounds for the new F20C.
and no, you cannot fit a F20C into a accord, 1) F20C is a rear wheel driven engine, you'll have problems trying to conver the gearbox to acctually run into a FWD car.
</TD></TR></TABLE> not to mention most haters never even tried both f20b and h22a in their cars before or even touched one.
Like someone mentioned, F20B is a hell of a engine that was designed for one reason, whcih was to give the BTCC and the mugen 2L race series a engine and also to make grounds for the new F20C.
and no, you cannot fit a F20C into a accord, 1) F20C is a rear wheel driven engine, you'll have problems trying to conver the gearbox to acctually run into a FWD car.
01-05-2005, 04:33 PM
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Re: (jdmaccord23)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmaccord23 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can the F20C be installed in a 5th gen Accord?</TD></TR></TABLE>
sure....have fun making a RWD accord
sure....have fun making a RWD accord
08-17-2006, 04:18 PM
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h22 is horribly dissapointing.. dont do it..based on my experiences they suck unless you pour tons of money into them to actaully make them moderatly quick. I would say probally overall hondas worst engine for reliablity and overall driversatisfaction.. just my opinion though.. dont get upset.. i hate them
Based on a $2000 budget;
I figure for the same price as an h22a.. like probally $1500 or so.. if you installed it yourself..
plus hondata etc etc
or you could have an f22 - buy an entire accord for like $500 with a decent motor.. tons to be had around me.. part the rest of the car out.. you basically net the motor for free.. then dump $2000 into fuel managment.. hondata.. turbo (4g63 would be fine) redrill a dsm manifold yourself.. it bolts right up.. slap in some 450cc injectors aparently they bolt in too.. dsm ones..
and your laughing.. owning every single rice bag prelude on the streets.. $150 for a decent front mount.. dsm BOV.. and if your going all out have some custom axles done up.
h22 = tha gay
f22 turbo = fun
Based on a $2000 budget;
I figure for the same price as an h22a.. like probally $1500 or so.. if you installed it yourself..
plus hondata etc etc
or you could have an f22 - buy an entire accord for like $500 with a decent motor.. tons to be had around me.. part the rest of the car out.. you basically net the motor for free.. then dump $2000 into fuel managment.. hondata.. turbo (4g63 would be fine) redrill a dsm manifold yourself.. it bolts right up.. slap in some 450cc injectors aparently they bolt in too.. dsm ones..
and your laughing.. owning every single rice bag prelude on the streets.. $150 for a decent front mount.. dsm BOV.. and if your going all out have some custom axles done up.
h22 = tha gay
f22 turbo = fun
08-29-2006, 11:49 PM
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Re: (sugarfree)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sugarfree »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hi there.... i own a jdm torneo sir-t, i live in auckland, nz. thats why i can get that jdm model.
anyway, not being OT, mine has this f20b motor in it. honestly speaking, it is a great motor. love to rev high, but still a great performer on city streets.
according to what i heard from my friend, who own a similar car (jdm accord sir-t), with cl1 euro-r's h22a (practically the jdm prelude sir type-s), f20b is actually a destroked h22a. f20b will pulls like mad on high rev. on low end, its lacking a little bit of tq. but hey, its easily recovered by downshifts the gear. as for the h22a, it's something like a more balanced motor across the rev range. great torque down under and massive power (220hp max) on high rev.
both engine is similar, most parts and after markets are interchangeable. so, its down to you.
agree with what had been covered above, f20b is a better option, since its the recent range. nothing below 1997 mark. so, good on mileage.
happy choosing......
thats f20b in my torneo
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I got sick of reading this thread, listen to this guy. F20B and H22 internals are interchangable for the most part. there are very few exceptions. no matter what you do to either of these engines if you are planning on N/A its gonna cost $$$$. hondas and acuras are well designed and hard to pull power out of without boost and that is a fact of life. N/A is a whole different kind of power.
anyway, not being OT, mine has this f20b motor in it. honestly speaking, it is a great motor. love to rev high, but still a great performer on city streets.
according to what i heard from my friend, who own a similar car (jdm accord sir-t), with cl1 euro-r's h22a (practically the jdm prelude sir type-s), f20b is actually a destroked h22a. f20b will pulls like mad on high rev. on low end, its lacking a little bit of tq. but hey, its easily recovered by downshifts the gear. as for the h22a, it's something like a more balanced motor across the rev range. great torque down under and massive power (220hp max) on high rev.
both engine is similar, most parts and after markets are interchangeable. so, its down to you.
agree with what had been covered above, f20b is a better option, since its the recent range. nothing below 1997 mark. so, good on mileage.
happy choosing......
thats f20b in my torneo
</TD></TR></TABLE>I got sick of reading this thread, listen to this guy. F20B and H22 internals are interchangable for the most part. there are very few exceptions. no matter what you do to either of these engines if you are planning on N/A its gonna cost $$$$. hondas and acuras are well designed and hard to pull power out of without boost and that is a fact of life. N/A is a whole different kind of power.
09-14-2006, 03:32 PM
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did the whole h22 EK thing. its got nice ***** for a 4cylinder down low. very torquey. uptop its nice as well. but the drawbacks of the motor definitely exceed the limelight....unless you plan on keeping the motor below 4000. the frm sleeves gives way to oil consumption after about 120K. if you romp on it you'll end up paying. expect mangled piston rings, sleeves and scored cylinder walls from the unorthodox material. i just dropped in an auto f20b last week...very nice power uptop, the torque is nice too althoguh single digits lower than that of the 22. small price to pay for cast iron sleeves though. this is where the two motors become absolutely unparalleled...its built to be pushed up top without the smokey blue endtrail...throw in a set of cams and youre running 200whp NA with reliability.
09-15-2006, 12:58 PM
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Re: h22a vs. f20b (Mr Wonderfull)
Is there a difference between the auto F20B and the manual F20B???
Different cams, pistons, intake, or exhaust? Or is the difference just because of the auto tranny?
Different cams, pistons, intake, or exhaust? Or is the difference just because of the auto tranny?
09-15-2006, 01:12 PM
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the differnce comes only in the throttle body, cams and ecu mapping. the auto is built for more midrange power while the manual gives a little more up top. pistons are the same and no the power is not lost in the transmission. i opted for the auto block bc i already had a custom intake manifold off my 2-2 that bolted right on so the shrunken throttle body didnt come into play.
09-15-2006, 01:15 PM
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by the way bluedlude, what a piece of work that engine bay is. it still pains me however to see such a gleaming motor masked with a heat shield over a stock exhaust manifold...get crackin buddy.
09-16-2006, 01:35 AM
#50
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Re: (machine4321)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by machine4321 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">some people dont look at the whole picture ....
yes the h22 has more tourge ....but its only like 8 ftp and the f20 comes in 1000rpm later ...thats not a big deal ...not to mention the f20b has shorter gears to make up for the diff in trq......
for those on a budget (ie me)am taking the the f20 over the h22 (i have a jdm h22 in the car now) and heres why
the stock bottom end on the f20b is as strong as most after market parts..if not better due to hondas close tolerances ....in my case i will never have to upgrade the bottom end for my all motor build......even if i was going to there wouldnt be much use due to the fact that the rods are super strong ...
another plus is that the f20 uses larger mains 55mm vs 50mm(97 and up h22 use these mains too) a fully balanced bottom end and not to mention iron sleevs.....and no real need to resleve for forged pistons..
tranny has lsd on all 5 speeds and not to mention that the f20 is more then like ly in better condition due to the age ..(they were only made from late 97 to 99)
on the bad side if the worst hapened it would be dam hard to get stock internals or valves since they are smaller then the h22 ....but as satansrv has found there is a lot of other honda parts that will fit this engine nicely
i found many f20b for around 3000 and h22 for any where from 2000 to 2500
so for the small amount in difference and the fact the motor is newr in age its not a bad trade off
dont get me wrong it took me a long time to make the decision to go with the f20 but after installing my DIY ITBS on the h22 the rev potential of the motor was really a nucance ...so i would have to build my h to work with the new power band and that would cost more then i have .....
it bugs me when evey one calls it a torqueless wonde like b16s and such whn they really have no proof of it ..ive seen some dynos of f20bs put out 214whp with a ported head jun3 cams and an image header and almost 9000rpm with a broad power band ...never seen a stock block h22 make that power before ..in fact its hard to find many over 200 whp with more mods .....
that motor was build for one purpose..mugen needed a 2.0 motor for a race class and the of course were over with the h22...i thkn there was a stock block rule and thats why it was build so dam good....and these motors were making 300whp
it was also the test bed for the f20c (s2000)
and we all know its a great motor
so do some reasearch before making your decision ....if you think the motor will suit your driving habbits then great ..if its down low toruge you want mabye a stroked h22 is what your after ...me i want to make as much power as a can on a modest budget and with the itbs the f20b with a smaller head gasket some good cams and prospeed header should be great get me to my goal of 13.5 with my accord ........hope there was some good info in here for you </TD></TR></TABLE> this man knowws what he talkin about
yes the h22 has more tourge ....but its only like 8 ftp and the f20 comes in 1000rpm later ...thats not a big deal ...not to mention the f20b has shorter gears to make up for the diff in trq......
for those on a budget (ie me)am taking the the f20 over the h22 (i have a jdm h22 in the car now) and heres why
the stock bottom end on the f20b is as strong as most after market parts..if not better due to hondas close tolerances ....in my case i will never have to upgrade the bottom end for my all motor build......even if i was going to there wouldnt be much use due to the fact that the rods are super strong ...
another plus is that the f20 uses larger mains 55mm vs 50mm(97 and up h22 use these mains too) a fully balanced bottom end and not to mention iron sleevs.....and no real need to resleve for forged pistons..
tranny has lsd on all 5 speeds and not to mention that the f20 is more then like ly in better condition due to the age ..(they were only made from late 97 to 99)
on the bad side if the worst hapened it would be dam hard to get stock internals or valves since they are smaller then the h22 ....but as satansrv has found there is a lot of other honda parts that will fit this engine nicely
i found many f20b for around 3000 and h22 for any where from 2000 to 2500
so for the small amount in difference and the fact the motor is newr in age its not a bad trade off
dont get me wrong it took me a long time to make the decision to go with the f20 but after installing my DIY ITBS on the h22 the rev potential of the motor was really a nucance ...so i would have to build my h to work with the new power band and that would cost more then i have .....
it bugs me when evey one calls it a torqueless wonde like b16s and such whn they really have no proof of it ..ive seen some dynos of f20bs put out 214whp with a ported head jun3 cams and an image header and almost 9000rpm with a broad power band ...never seen a stock block h22 make that power before ..in fact its hard to find many over 200 whp with more mods .....
that motor was build for one purpose..mugen needed a 2.0 motor for a race class and the of course were over with the h22...i thkn there was a stock block rule and thats why it was build so dam good....and these motors were making 300whp
it was also the test bed for the f20c (s2000)
and we all know its a great motor
so do some reasearch before making your decision ....if you think the motor will suit your driving habbits then great ..if its down low toruge you want mabye a stroked h22 is what your after ...me i want to make as much power as a can on a modest budget and with the itbs the f20b with a smaller head gasket some good cams and prospeed header should be great get me to my goal of 13.5 with my accord ........hope there was some good info in here for you </TD></TR></TABLE> this man knowws what he talkin about