xtreemHonda

So hey everyone, first post woot woot!!
But anyways here before too long I'm buying a '97 Accord from my friend.
Its got the stock Engine in it, and I intend to turn into a quick daily driver.
My plans so far for it are:
Megan Racing Header, hi flow cat, and exhaust system.
Unorthdox Racing pulley kit.
10.5 Bisimoto pistons.
H23 Intake Manifold
Bisimoto pro springs.
Bisimoto Stage 2 cam
Bisimoto Cam gear
GRP aluminum Rods
and maybe porting the head.

That's just what I've gathered from doing the research that I have, if anyone sees something that they disagree with or thinks I could make better feel free to mention it. Or if you see something that could be added to make the build better then feel free to mention that also, I'm just gathering info before I start attempting to build this car. Also should I consider a F2B Tranny swap?

kd97accord

hey man, liking the looks of this build, but if you want to use a different gearbox, use the H-series one, its pretty much a direct bolt on, so you wouldnt have to worry about using some sort of an adapter to put it all together....

good luck!!!

xtreemHonda

Yeah, I've seen some stuff about using a H23 Tranny.
My only concern is that I don't wanna have to worry about blowing a tranny out, I'm more concerned about reliability then speed.
So would the H23 Tranny be able to withstand the higher output for extended periods of time?

Bwill9886

Seems like a good start. I wouldn't bother with the pulley kit, but that's my opinion. Definitely open up the head as much as your budget will allow. You'll be glad you did. What are your plans for tuning?

H series tranny will give you lower gearing, which is often better for higher revving N/A builds. They will hold just fine for your power levels. They will withstand turbo builds as well.

xtreemHonda

That was actually gonna be another one of my questions, what should I consider for tuning?
I hear lots of good things about AEM and Hondata, but I honestly know nothing about it.

nus_dogg

Nice plan you got going. Its gonna be a quick little F22 you got once you're all done. Good Luck!

You can do a p28 chipped ECU tuned on CROME, Neptune, Hondata, etc. Its your call. I ran a P28 Chipped ECU with Hondata S100 with my F22B1 with Bisi Level 2 VTEC cam that I had, and it ran like a champ.

NWCG3

Question, you are running 10.5 comp? or are you going higher? Just trying to see if your setup as described, is matching up with a NA build or Turbo


H series tranny will give you lower gearing, which is often better for higher revving N/A builds. They will hold just fine for your power levels. They will withstand turbo builds as well.[/QUOTE]

H22 tranny is good for NA builds cuz of short gear. H23 had longer gears and build stronger, good for Turbo

Each tranny is different.

h22: short gear na
h23: long gear turbo
f23: long gear turbo, not as strong as H23 tho
f22: long turbo, but on the very very low end of the tranny durability.

BUt honestly, f22 and f23 are super cheap easy to find. Get one of those to get the car up and running, then source an h23 tranny or whatever and build it to withstand serious power. Just a tip if u wanna drive soon and are on a budget!

FTW!!

GhostAccord

Nice plans, not a bad choice of builds with an all Bisimoto parts. You may want to look into the characteristics of those aluminum rods a little closer. You could probably get away with a set of lighter steel rods. I think they are more for Drag race and heavy duty road course racing.

Accordin2me

Sounds good to me, but if your goin ported you might as well go with a good e.manifold with a nice fat downpipe to compliment the intake. Just my 2 cents. Just be carefull if your n/a...

xtreemHonda

I'm staying N/A. But I'm not building a race car, I'm trying to also keep it a reliable daily driver, but I don't wanna just put a fart cannon and intake on it and be like "I ouTrun Msutang TGs all da time"
I don't expect more than 140 to the wheels, anything over that will make me happy.

xtreemHonda

I'm probably also gonna get the H22 tranny, and I'm gonna do some research on the p28 ECU.
Thanks everyone for the advice!!

twkdCD595

Interesting build. You might want to figure out what kind of rpm you plan to rev this too before you put in such a short gear ratio h22 trans. Unless you plan to turn a good bit of rpm you will have rediculously short gears and be cruising on the highway at a high rpm which is not very friendly to daily driving.

NWCG3: I am not sure where you got the information that the f22 trans is the weakest trans. I would argue its alot stronger than you think and very comparable to the H for strength.

xtreemHonda

Umm, that's something else I know nothing about, what kind of RPM should I be looking to rev to.

and do you think that a F22 Tranny would stand up to the power I'll be making, cuz like I said the tranny isn't for power or speed, I just don't want it to break on me.

Bwill9886

I couldn't agree more. This is what I was talking about earlier. Trust me when I say that any of these trannies will hold up to the power you are looking at. You'll see a lot of back and forth info, but when it comes down to it, it can be said that they are all fairly comparable in power handling (or can be made to be).

These trans are far from bulletproof, but handle a few hundred whp all the time. You may want to look at a stronger clutch but don't worry too much about how it will hold up. Just keep it maintained and it'll handle your N/A build just fine. Especially if you aren't even going to break 200whp.

McGruber

Sounds like a good build man, I like how you have realistic goals like 140 to the wheels although I think you'll get a little more with what you have planned. Also I have had the megan headers and full exhaust system on my 98 accord (I like it better with the cat on) for 3 years and love it. It sounds very good and deep, not ricy at all. Good luck!

xtreemHonda

Okay so what kinda clutch should I be looking into then, I don't know much about aftermarket clutch companies, I'll be doing some research here soon, but I'm interested in hearing y'alls opinions too.

@McCruber Yeah, I'm not a ricetard thats like my "k&n Filter gives me 24 hp" Horsepower costs money and I'm not putting a ton into this car so I'm not expecting too much to the ground. I say 140 to the wheels cause its gonna be conservatively tuned and on pump gas.
And I know a guy with Megan Racing exhaust on his sr 240, and its complete sex. So after research showing me they were reputable company that was my choice.

NWCG3

I should retract that statement and restate what i meant. my bad everyone. what i meant was the f23 and f22 trannies are weak compared to an h23 as stock trannies.

Also, I have found the H series trannys can be pushed much much harder in stock form than the F series trannys. Im talking 300hp +

Of course if you have the money you should build a durable tranny to withstand the power.
For me, anything above 200hp needs a built tranny. Ive been through too many that i just never put the money or time into. I end up frying them

The most annoying part is, if you find an f22 on the cheap, its usually got crazy miles, in my experience.

An f23 would be a better value for me as far as ease of finding a low miles tranny without breaking the bank.

I dunno tho, when i started out i was always taught to do it right once. And be done with it. So i build trannys and build motors to last. I am not the guy who is rebuilding his turbo motor every year or so. Maybe just a turbo rebuild but other than that, tranny and motors i build are sleeved and solid.

any input? Im actually really curious about what you guys have experienced.

For a DD, **** it. clutch flywheel done. Unless you have $4,000 to build one. And I dont mean $2,000. I mean an honest $4,000....yea **** gets that real from time to time lol

Bwill9886

I don't know about ALL that.

There a quite a few F series trans running around handling 300whp plus, in stock form. Go check the forced induction forum.

If anything above 200whp needed a "built" tranny, I don't think there would be as many people as there are running turbo setups. Throwing an improved clutch and a flywheel (if necessary) typically does the trick. Sure it helps to build them, but it's hardly a requirement.

If you are frying your trans left and right, you may want to point the finger somewhere else besides the trannies themselves.

EDIT: Btw to be clear, if you are taking your setup to the track most of the time, obviously stock tranny life will be much shorter than on a street build. We can definitely agree on that.

xtreemHonda

Well, I'm gonna start researching clutches here soon, I'd of done it sooner but my part time job is a bitch :p.
And everyone please bear with me when I ask questions that might seem downright dumb, this is the first every car I've modified, and I'm gonna ask stupid questions, but I'd rather have people judge me and get it done right the first time, then play guessing games with it.
Cuz everything on this car is gonna have to planned for precisely which is something I've always been good at. I'm positive that the easy things like Cold air intakes, and the exhaust sytem will be no problem. I only see myself having problems with the technical engine stuff.
But I wanna thank everyone so far for being nice and supportive, not gonna lie, I expected a lot of douche bag replys.
But I haven't got any, so -high five- Honda-tech forum.

twkdCD595

Just as a side note I have put just a fuzz over 600whp and 500wtrq out of my SOHC f22b1 motor thru the stock f22b1 transmission. So far its taken a beating. Broke third gear for the first time a couple weeks back after racing and hit a bump up in the road which loaded/ unloaded the drivetrain under power.

Thats on a stock original gearset with limited slip only mod to the trans... not bad for a 15 year old box thats seen lots of miles driven and 3 different turbo setups over last 4 - 5 years. Seen over 500whp for last couple years, and was beating on it with 335whp still on a stock motor before that. Now I will say I dont try to break it so I drive it a bit gingerly but I am not easy on it either by any means.

You would be suprised what they can take and why I say its not far off if any at all from the H series stuff. The issue I think with them is more relative to the added stress the F series transmission sees from using long gear ratios in heavy platforms.

Unfortunately though unless you really wanna rev a F22 out a good bit or put your car on a taller tire (or a combination of both) to compensate, the H series transmissions have short ratios that can result in limited mph you can turn before running out of gear. Which may be ok for some but others it makes for a less than ideal situation.

xtreemHonda

Well is there anyway to beef up the Tranny's insides a little bit, just to promote reliabilty? Cuz this car has to get me back and forth to school for 4 years.
And also where should I be looking for valves? Does Bisi sell them?

jhondayang

Bisi does sell valve trains. And as for trans go, from experience, h23 has shorter gears. I don't care what anyone says. This is from taking a jdm h22 trans out and installing a h23 tranny. My friend tops out fourth gear on the quarter mile with his h22 swapped cb7. And as for hp go, you will do over 140 whp easy. Having a shorter geared trans will just increase your cars performance on a n/a build. If u have the money, I will recommend getting the t2t4 trans that came off of I believe the f20b motor. Someone correct me on that.
My current setup is f22a1, bisi level 2 cam, bisi custom header, f22a6 runner, h22 plenum and t body, aem fuel management system, 90psi external fuel pump, h22 injectors, aem stand alone version 2, tuned and made 165 whp and 149 ft lb of torque. Stock bottom end and non ported head. And as posted before, be prepared to spend over 4000 easy. Tuning ain't cheap either. Good luck and hopefully my build will help u.

Andryzzle

a couple quick thoughs:

-IIRC, the h23 intake manifold won't bolt right up to the f22b(1 or 2) engine that should be in that 97 accord. The f23 IM is another alternative for an upgrade.

-h23 gears are shorter than f22 gears. You can use this calculator to find out the change in RPMs between the transmissions at cruising speeds.

http://www.zealautowerks.com/transcalc.php

-140whp will not break your stock trans.

xtreemHonda

Your build helped a lot thanks. With what I'm doing, should I consider upgrades to my injectors and fuel system? And what about Ignition system? Also where can I find one of these chipped p28 ECUs at?
And I can't find valves on Bisi's website. I'm blind.
And believe I understand the money issue and if I have to save and wait to do it the right way then, I will save and wait and have it done the right way.

jhondayang

Thanks. Glad I helped a little. Lol. But as for your fuel managemnt goes, you should always upgrade your fuel management when building your motor. And or tuning purposes too. Look into phearable.net. They do pretty good stuff. A chipped ecu is fine for what u are doing. I only went stand alone because I got a good deal. Save up and plan. SOHC all the way.