j894

'99 Accord
2.3l - f23a1
5sp
210k

Out of nowhere I started getting p1399 and p0303 codes a few days ago. However I haven't noticed much difference in how the car runs - seems normal. Cleared the codes and run it again only to have p0300, p301, p0303 come up with p1399 pending.

Cleared the codes again to drive some more and I've been consistently getting p0303(Cylinder 3 misfire) and p1399 (Misfire on all cylinders).

I started with the basics since I've been putting on a lot of mileage lately.
-Plugs
-Wires
-Changed to spare Distrib.

Still had the problem. Changed the #3 injector and p0303 (cylinder 3 misfire), p1399 still set. I'm sitting here scratching my head.

I've read the alternator can cause problems with the p1399 code at times, plus mine was making a small whine under some loads. Mine is still under warranty so I'm going to try swapping it tomorrow.

Anyone else have this issue with intermittent, then consistent codes? The car seems to run the same

j894

Update: While as my alt. still probably has problems from the noise it makes, I'm not sure that the problem.

Drove the car around tonight a little more and the problem seems to be getting worse. Throwing more codes again: p0300, p0301, p0303, p1399 ... and now the Check engine light is blinking (catalyst damaging misfire? )

Also is a noticeable chugging coming from the exhaust. I have a small video the demonstrate the exhaust tone. http://s69.photobucket.com/user/j894...d883b.mp4.html (hard to hear)

The exhaust definitely sounds like it has a miss but the car drives fine - no loss in power, idle speed ,roughness, etc. Weird.

I usually drive about 100 miles a day going back and forth to work. Its like someone flipped a switch. It drove perfect 2 days ago. Can anyone tell me what is going on here? - I don't want to drive it and make it worse.

Kot2002

I have a similar situation. You can check out my post from yesterday (P0303) a few down from yours. I think I'm also getting a P1399 (My notes are at home and I'm at work now.) I'm not an expert, but I believe it is either spark, fuel, or mechanical. I traced mine to low compression in #3 after tenatively ruling out spark and fuel. You might want to do a compression test.

j894

Yeah I was leaning toward that. I'm going to try double check the EGR and do a comp check now. I'm almost afraid too.

It's weird that it still drives OK though - on short trips.

j894

Small update, I checked the EGR (new last year) and the port and both seem fine and dandy with normal dirtiness. I was able to stick a long piece of wire all the way down the cylinder side as well as the intake manifold side. So it looks like that's out. I didn't have time to change my alt. - thats tomorrow.

The compression tester I had didn't have a small enough adapter to fit down the spark plug hole, so it looks like I wont be able to do that right away.

On another note, I started the car and ran it for a few minutes today and it starts right up and runs normal with no abnormal tone in the exhaust. It's not till its running for a minute or two that the erratic tone and the perceived misfire starts (still with no perceived change in idle or running quality). With this I'm not totally convinced it's a mechanical problem.

On another, another note. I pulled the new #3 plug and it is bright white after only 60 or so miles. So its running lean.

Funny this whole problem immediately started happened within a few miles of filling up on cheap gas. I wonder if the gas has something to do with it. More to come.

Kot2002

I checked my notes and, yes, I have a P1399. My 2002 Accord runs fine. It seems normal to me in all respects, except occasionally it runs rough when idling. At the same time, I've only got 85 psi in #3. I changed the plugs two days ago and the old plug in #3 was indistinguishable from the other three plugs: worn with ash deposits. I hope the cause of your issue is different from what's causing mine - and it may be a different cause. However, I don't see how the alternator could play a role in your misfire issue. An alternator problem doesn't seem like something that would cause the engine to run normally when cold, then erratically after running a minute or two. My experience with bad alternators is there bad from when you turn the key.

j894

Well as I said in my post above, I'm not sure the Alt. necessarily has anything to do with the miss, but mine was making noise under load anyway.

Slightly different situation, but In the past I had another accord (2000) which had a bad Alt., and intermittently caused codes to show when acting up, although not these ones.. until it was replaced of course. Again I'm doubting that's the issues in this newer situation.

More to come when I have more time.

j894

Well my worst fears have been realized.

Cylinders 1, 2, and 4 are 180-195 PSI. Cylinder 3 is 85-90 PSI.
With a few tablespoons full of oil the compression shot up, so the bottom end is not looking good.

Looks like my already light wallet is going to be hurting bad, soon.

Funny thing is it still runs and drives fine. It feels no weaker on power than it did before this happened. Makes me wonder if cylinder 3 was always low on compression and it just hit the point of being critical, recently with all the miles I've been putting on.

Kot2002

Sorry about the bad news. Mine runs and drives fine too. I don't understand that part either. But it makes me nervous. The only thing I am reasonably sure of is that low compression in one cylinder increases oil consumption which is going to eventually ruin the catalytic converter. In my situation, I'm using a quart every 1200 m. I think I'm going to buy another used Accord with lower miles to drive and try to do a valve job myself. I've never done one so it should be interesting. You going to have a shop do the work on yours or do it yourself?

I think you're right that it was always low on compression and just hit the point of being critical. Don't have any evidence. It just seems to make sense that these things are gradual problems that slowly increase with wear.

j894

Overdue update: had my friend's shop check cyl. 3 with a bore scope and they could find no major marks on the cylinder walls. This further re-enforced the idea of a burned valve along with a leak down test sounding a little air out the exhaust.

I had him pull the head and sure enough the 2 exhaust valves on cyl. 3 were burned, I didn't get to see them myself but he said one was missing a piece. I imagine there any remaining piece of it is now floating in the exhaust somewhere. I'm not sure if a valve adjustment was ever done to this engine or not, but I read that could of been the root cause of the valve burning. The machinist that did the head work said its a pretty common problem and he's fixed a lot of them (lots of these cars still driving around my area).

After a lot of delays it should be back together tomorrow hopefully. Mine only had about 30k, but I got a new aisin timing belt kit for it also while everything is apart. I'm all in at this point, but at least I know what I have under the hood vs. buying something else cheap and having problems. Wish I had the time and space to do the job myself.

Will post an update when I get the car back. It'll be nice to have some pep back and maybe better gas mileage.

j894

Got the car back and had a few little issues with such an involved project - had a check engine light for the knock sensor and Vtec solenoid as well as an already fragile flex pipe go bad. Fixed them this past week and all seems well. No more codes and the engine runs much better and a good bit more power. Much less throttle input needed to make the car move and cruise on the highway. I'm curious to see if my gas mileage will improve also after this project.

After all is said and done now, I'm almost sure that this motor had some valve problems from the get go when I bought it, and again, just became critical recently. The car has never taken hills so well, responded to throttle input, or cruised as well as it does now. Also, I always had a hanging idle issue between gear shifts which is no longer the case after this valve replacement/ head rebuild. I imagine some non-sealing valves on the exhaust side could have contributed to this.

Hopefully I'll have no issues for a while now.

Kot2002

I think you should have no issues for a good long while. Glad to hear your Accord is running well now.

I still have to deal with my issue. My 2002 Accord has been parked for the last 6 weeks or so. Though I thought I better drive it some and when I did the check engine light went off and is staying off. Kind of weird as I'm sure I still have low compression in one cylinder.

Anyway, my current plan is to use some of my time off at the end of the year to do a valve job by myself. Not sure if this is wise as I have not done anything this major on my own. My only experience was as a helper when I was 17.

Do you mind me asking what your valve job set you back? I assume it was in the rang of about $2K, but that is just a guess.

j894

Not counting the exhaust pipe being bad and broken sensor. The head was rebuilt for $325, worst case I was told $575. I believe only the needed valves were replaced.

Labor was about $400, plus tax, parts, coolant, etc. He may have given me a friend discount. I provided the head gasket kit, head bolts (Victor Reinz), timing belt kit (Aisin) which costed me about $275 more. I could of gone slightly cheaper if I got the felpro gasket kit, bolts, and a gates Tbelt kit.

All in, I have about $1100 not including misc stuff afterwards.

Kot2002

Interesting. Thanks for the info.