99AccordProblem

Alright, so we have spark, compression, and fuel... the car should run but it doesn't. Its a 99 Honda Accord, 4 cylinder, EX 160,000 miles After checking the spark plugs, replacing the wires, getting a new starter, and checking and cleaning all the igniters the timing belt is good and we've got enough compression we now think we're getting too much fuel. The spark plugs are too wet. So we're thinking something sensor related, a buddy of ours works at a Buick Dealer and suggested Crank Sensor... I've heard they throw off the igniter timing and other functions... Anyone else know if this is a reasonable option or could it be another sensor of some sort. If it is the Crank Sensor, Where is it located?

Any help is greatllyyyyy appreciated!!!! Thanks!!!!

P_Adams

It mounts to the face of the oil pump assembly, under the timing belt cover. Refer:

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...P-OIL+STRAINER

#18 TDC sensor

P

99AccordProblem

P,

Thanks for the help, I was wondering however if you think the Crank Sensor could be the problem or perhaps it cab be an O2 Sensor. I've seen alot of cars with that problem but I don't know if that alone would cause the car not to run.... Like I said we've got fuel, spark, and compression could the O2 Sensor cause the fuel/air mix to be off that much??

Thanks again,

A

P_Adams

I'm hesitant to condemn the O2 sensor. I haven't seen one yet that cause this condition. When the engines cold (first started), it runs in what is refered to as open loop, with the ecm operating off a set of default values which do not involve the O2 sensor. I've seen O2 sensors effect gas milage, hesitations, sags and flat spots, but never a flooded condition.
Honestly, the crank TDC sensor isn't a high incident component. It's hardly ever mentioned.
I've seen defective (pourous) ignition wires do this
I've seen partially discharged batteries do this

You can sometimes get a partially flooded engine to fire by holding the gas pedal to the floor while cranking, but it can be a real b***ch of a job if the plugs are really wet.

P

redline870

do you have a noid light to check injector pulses?

99AccordProblem

I don't have a noid light but we have checked the injectors and each is spraying properly. When the day started we had a code 1 from the CEL and bought an upstream O2 sensor to see if that would solve our problem... it didn't. we then swapped out the new sensor and put the old sensor back in. this time the computer wasn't reading ANY code... at which point we took out both computers and put them back in just to take a look at them. when we put them back in we then had a code 54 however we were receiving the code from the ABS light?!? So now we're thinking crank fluctuation sensor.... Does this sound plausible? We've checked everything and even had a technician look at it. The exhaust is fine, the spark plugs are fine just too wet, the wires are new and injectors, and fuel pump are good too. Plenty of compression and spark and fuel... so what's wrong? Thanks again!!

dtapia

not sure if you have checked this yet but i assume you have inspected the dist cap and rotor. some times when things fail we tend to over look the basics.we just had a integra in the shop about 3 weeks ago that had a rotor that was grounding out and no start.it had spark and fuel and compression. just a thought. on simple way to test is you can ohm the rotor or remove the cap and hold the coil wire about 1/4" fro mthe center of the rotor and see what it does. if the spark jumps to the housing then the rotor is good,if it just sparks and nothing else then you have a internally failed rotor. very common with cheap aftermarket tune up parts.

redline870

heres a pic of the crank sensor:



i'll see if i have a flow chart at work to test the crank, wont be til tomorrow though.

99AccordProblem

That flowchart would be great, I'd really appreciate it.

Now however I've got another question... After putting in the O2 sensor, the code 1 disappeared, when the car still wouldn't start, we tried to jump the code again, this time however when jumping the code the CEL light remained on. Does this mean a Code 0 or that the ECU is dead? One test was to check if the injectors were still clicking and they are. in theory if the computer was dead they shouldn't be working still. Also our ABS is giving us a signal does this mean that only one of the 2 computers is dead or are both the ABS and CEL lights/codes connected to the same computer? Is there another way to test if the ECU is our problem?

Thank you,

A

dtapia

this is a 4 cyl correct? or v6 ?

99AccordProblem

it's a 4 cylinder

dtapia

if the ckp sensor was failed it will set a dtc.these systems are very sensitive and will pick up faults pretty quick.

dtapia

no that means their no stored dtc's present.

99AccordProblem

We don't have a Diagnostic Trouble Code at this, when we try to jump the code the CEL stays on, it doesn't blink at all. When we TRY to start the car the CEL turns on 2 seconds and then turns off, but stays on when putting it in diagnostic mode. That's why we're wondering if there's an isssue with the ECU... Do you know how to test the ECU to see if it's working? Does a constant CEL mean a bad ECU???

99AccordProblem

Well we're not getting any codes but the car won't start, we've got spark, fuel, and compression all mechanical aspects have been checked and rechecked. We've narrowed it down to a sensor failure and now possibly an ECU failure in addition to whatever caused the car not to start originally. The only code we're getting currrently is through the ABS light, and it's code 54.... any ideas there?

P_Adams

ABS DTC 54 Fail-Safe Relay
I'll see what I can scare up

P

redline870

how did this car stop running in the first place? were you rebuilding the engine? or did you come out one day and try to start it and it wouldnt turn over? have you removed the distributor at all? maybe the distributor is 180 degrees off. are you getting spark at every cylinder?

99AccordProblem

We have spark at every plug. Now we've just found out that there is no voltage to the crank sensor could this mean an ecu problem or a crank sensor problem???

redline870

check an ecu pin out diagram to find which wires go from the ecu to the crank sensor and check for continuity in those wires.

dtapia

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