cpayne5

Hello, I have a '96 Accord (OBD2) that is consistently throwing codes P0336 and P01361. It is intermittent, but consistent. For example, it will run fine for a few minutes, then run terribly for a minute or two, then run fine.

These codes indicate an issue with the crank sensor/signal. I had some other work to do on the car this weekend, so I checked resistance of the CKP sensor. It was around 2k ohms. Can anyone confirm that this is within spec? I have seen conflicting numbers. My next step is to check the sensor wires and the wires between the connector and the ECU for shorts. Can anyone help me out with tracing these wires back to the ECU (color and pin numbers)?

I'd like to fully diagnose this before I have to pull the timing cover and start throwing parts at it.

Thanks.

MAD_MIKE

If there is an oil leak/gunk on the sensors, the resolution of the signal to the PCM will be degraded. This may be part of the problem. But you will need to remove the covers to verify the sensors are clean.

holmesnmanny

Its normally that gunk builds up on the two sensors and/or the crank timing pulley/front balance shaft, rather than the sensor actually being bad.

cpayne5

Thanks, guys. I'll dig into it later this week. I actually had the lower cover off over the weekend to peek in and see if the sensors were bolted down and not just flopping around. Didn't think to check for cleanliness.

This car is for a 16 year old who doesn't have a license yet, so no rush to get it on the road.

cpayne5

So, I finally got back around to doing this. I bought a new TDC/CKP sensor pair and installed it. The CKP sensor was black with dirt, so I'm sure that was its problem.

Got it all back together and it's running very rough right off idle and indicating a P1361 (intermittent TDC sensor issue). It's all running together, but I'm pretty sure it had this code before I replaced the sensors. Once it gets up to 1500rpm or so, it runs great.

Any advice?

holmesnmanny

Did you clean off the timing pulleys ? The sensors read off of them. They need to be clean.

Also, make sure you erase the codes.

cpayne5

I appreciate the reply.

I believe the TDC sensor reads the lobes on the backside of the balance shaft pulley. These lobes had some surface rust which I left alone. It wasn't dirty like the CKP sensor was.

I erased the codes but it would come back again within just a few seconds of running.

I pulled the ECU last night and plan to check the wires between the connectors tonight. If that checks out fine, I'll probably pull the timing covers again. The biggest PITA to doing this for me is the lower timing cover. Any tricks to getting that out without feeling like you're going to break it? ha

cpayne5

According to AllData, I had the sensors mixed up in my understanding of which was which. The TDC reads off of the timing belt crank pulley, while the CKP reads the balance pulley.
http://www.alldatadiy.com/alldatadiy...85594/62458236

So, the TDC sensor was the dirty one. Didn't get a chance to go through all the wires tonight, but hopefully tomorrow.

cpayne5

Went in Saturday and removed and reinstalled everything behind the timing covers. Car now runs fine and no more DTCs. Got some tags for it today and plan to start teaching my son how to drive it.

cpayne5

Scratch that. About 3 miles into the maiden voyage, the CKP/TDC issues reappeared.

It seems to consistently do it when it warms up now. Not sure that I've tested it enough to conclusively say that it only happens when warm, but that's what it's looking like.

I have tested the resistance of the sensors and for shorts in the wires all the way back to the ECU. Hot and cold, it all checks out.

I found where the wiring harness comes together (several large connectors) near the right strut tower and found this connector dangling by itself. Does anyone what it might be? It is very clean, so it hasn't been free for long. Doubt it's related, but found it odd.



I've been through everything inside the timing covers (sensors and lobes are clean). I've tested all the wiring and sensors when engine hot (when the DTCs recur continuously) and cold and everything is within spec. Took the covers off the ECU today and it looks pristine. No bulging capacitors or any ugliness in there.

The distributor cap looks fairly new. I did get a CYP code today, but chalked it up to the TDC/CKP issues. The CYP lives in the distributor, I think. Thoughts on this?

Any ideas? I need it at this point.

Thanks.

tim73

Raining bad now, I will though later go look on mine. See if i can see where that connector goes to/from.

cpayne5

Thanks, I would appreciate that.

It looks like there is something missing. I found a nipple on some sort of canister on the firewall that has been capped off, and also a hose that has a mounting bracket on it, but nowhere to be connected. Guessing it's some sort of emissions something or other that was ripped out.

So, the final step in the flow chart for these DTCs is to test with a known working ECU. This is an EX 2.2 manual car. How specific are the ECUs to these cars? Will a AT ECU work? Or a ECU from a non VTEC car? Thinking about trying to swap in another ECU if I can find one. Anyone in the Warrenton/Luray/Front Royal/Culpeper Virginia areas have one that I can test with?

cpayne5

I'm pretty sure what's missing is the cruise control actuator. It must have been poached for use on another car. It's completely missing - even the cable to that goes to the throttle body.

tech8

The 4P gray connector (Connector C464) would normally be connected to the cruise control actuator. The wire colors would be Brn/Blk, Brn, Brn/Wht, and Blk.

northwest drill

Any resolution to this? I am having the same problems. P0336 when it warms up. Works fine when it is cold.