GReddy212

Would anyone be able to tell me exactly how to tell if my a/c system has been retrofited for 134. How would i go about getting the r12 out of the system before coverting and recharging to 134. Thanks

deserthonda

the r134a have bigger valve fittings , you need a machine to recycle freon + put system under vaccum before charging it ...
my advice stich with r12 i know it is more expensive but for 1 it gets cooler, second i have seen that when you retrofit to r134a hoses will start leaking ..
but if you want to retrofit shop should sell a kit comes with valves and oil and freon , again you need tools to evacuate and recharge + a vaccum pump...........my advice stick with r12

GReddy212

Yeah thanks for the advice. I know that the r12 is a whole lot more expensive and harder to get. Would you know how much it would cost me and where i can get it done.

deserthonda

As for cost it may vary from city to city state to state shop to shop.... you might to chk local paper for deals and as for shops i am sure there are a lot of shops that can help you out starting with dealer and going down the line

YeuEmMaiMai

reasons not to convert to R143a

1. It will eventually kill your compressor as when R12 comes in contact with R134a oil, the oil will gel. This means death for your compressor

2. If you do convert you will have to change out the following
a. change hoses to barrier type
b. replace acumulator dryer
c. replace ALL O-rings to a type that can handle the r134a and it's oil

3. You will also have to flush out the following parts with a chemical solvent that will remove any remaining traces of R12 and it's lubricating oil.

a. compressor
b. all remaining lines
c. condensor
d. evaporator

4. Your cooling performance will also suffer as r134a systems do not have the reserve capacity that R12 systems do when it gets extremely hot outside.

5. System is extremely sensitive to amt of r134a in system too little it will not cool. too much and you may blow your system up due to excessively high pressure.

r12 is about $70/lb and labor is going to be somewhere around $80-100/hr

flight50

i think when i got mine done it was like 180 bucks. i needed like 1.5-2lbs. and to find out that i had a leak or failure in the system because it only lasted for a weekend. in order to find the leak or failure they have to charge the system which sucks if you don't know if you have problems.

Chiovnidca

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">reasons not to convert to R143a

1. It will eventually kill your compressor as when R12 comes in contact with R134a oil, the oil will gel. This means death for your compressor

</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, all r12 should be evacuated from the system so this shouldn't be a problem.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

2. If you do convert you will have to change out the following
a. change hoses to barrier type
b. replace acumulator dryer
c. replace ALL O-rings to a type that can handle the r134a and it's oil

</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wrong again. All these listed components are compatable with 134a.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

3. You will also have to flush out the following parts with a chemical solvent that will remove any remaining traces of R12 and it's lubricating oil.

a. compressor
b. all remaining lines
c. condensor
d. evaporator

</TD></TR></TABLE>
And wrong again. The original oil can stay in the system. As long as the proper amount of 134a compatible oil is added, there should be no problem.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
4. Your cooling performance will also suffer as r134a systems do not have the reserve capacity that R12 systems do when it gets extremely hot outside.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
There isn't that big of a difference, if it's noticable at all.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
5. System is extremely sensitive to amt of r134a in system too little it will not cool. too much and you may blow your system up due to excessively high pressure.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
It's no different than with r12 as far as I can tell.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
r12 is about $70/lb and labor is going to be somewhere around $80-100/hr</TD></TR></TABLE>
To retrofit to 134a will cost about the same, but if the system needs to be serviced in the future it will be cheaper.

YeuEmMaiMai

Chiovnidca,

You are wrong and you really should go do some research before you spew out garbage.

The acumulator/Dryer needs to be replaced when you convert the system simply due to the fact that once you expose the system to atmosphere, it becomes contaminated. Not to mention that mixing R12 that has been absorbed into the acumulator dryer membrane ( the desiccant used to absorb moisture) in a R12 system isn't compatible with R134a. Not to mention that as the years with the new R134a charge will cause the problem I mentioned above about pag oil gelling when it comes in contact with R12. When PAG oil gels it cannot lubricate the compressor and it will fail. In the last few years before they converted to R134a most R12 systems already had the newer barrier hoses and neoprine o-rings.

However, it is STRONGLY RECOMMENED that when you service your A/C system and you have to replace a part in the system, that you change out your o-rings at that time along with the acumulator/ dryer.

It is not possible to evacuate all R12 from the system, that is why it has to be FLUSHED before you convert. If you think it is possible to remove all traces of R12 bya simple evacuation, you are mistaken.

Obviously you are confused as I never said to replace the compressor or other parts listen in point #3 so I will quite it again.

3. You will also have to flush out the following parts with a chemical solvent that will remove any remaining traces of R12 and it's lubricating oil.

a. compressor
b. all remaining lines
c. condensor
d. evaporator

Flush is not replace. to flush a part with a chemical solvent is to remove any contaminates from it. Sure they are compatable as long as they can stand the higher pressure required by r143a. It is recommeneded that the system us flushed, placed on a vacume for 12 hrs and then recharged with r134a

You are so wrong on point #4 it isnt even funny.

to PROPERLY convert to r134a will cost you more than to repair and refil with R12 as long as all of the major parts are in working order.

R12 operates at lower pressures than R143a This is FACT.

Please read the following links for some information

http://www.nichols.nu/tip306.htm

http://www.aircondition.com/wwwboard/

having owned cars that where R12 (1992 merc sable) and a 1994 accord (current car) with a properly functioning A/C system. I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE that R12 is bt far a better coolant than R134a. It takes my accord a/c longer to cool down the car than my sable ever did.

It is recommeneded that you charge a r12 system to about 85% with r134a. Since you are already down 10-15% in terms of cooling perfomance compared to r12 it really may not work well particularly if your A/C system is small to begin with. You are definately better off staying with R12. R12 has a lower condensation point and this gives better cooling performance.

Chiovnidca

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You are wrong and you really should go do some research before you spew out garbage.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry I say your the one spewing the garbage. You should try rereading that first link you posted, nowhere does it say any of that has to be done. Some of it people are debateing? Sound like some smuck with a 1984 something that isn't even a Honda. Doing all that crap that you list is just a waste of time and money.

Checking the system for any needed repair, recovering the r12, adding pag oil, vac and charge with the proper amount of 134a is all that is needed. And i'm talking about Honda systems here, other manufacturers may be different.

Here's a little tidbit straight from Honda:
ServiceNews may 1998
What to Do With R-12 Oil
on Retrofits

Lately, some confusion has come up on what to do with
R-12 oil when you retrofit A/Cs to R-134a. The two
possible scenarios you’ll face are reusing the compressor
or replacing it. Here’s what to do for each:
• If you reuse the compressor (what you’ll do most of
the time), follow the retrofit procedure in the retrofit
kit and then add 120 cc of PAG oil before you
recharge with R-134a. The R-12 oil remaining in the
system shouldn’t cause any problems.
• If you need to replace the compressor, drain all the
refrigerant oil out of the new one before you install it.
(New compressors are pre-filled with R-12 oil, even
those labeled “R-134a Retrofit.”) Then when you
install the compressor, add 120 cc of PAG oil.

Chiovnidca

Here's another bit of research, again straight from Honda:

Service Bulletin 95-020

Converting R-12 A/C Systems to R-134a

PREPARATION
Before retrofitting the A/C system to use R-134a,
test its performance and inspect all components.
• If the system is not cooling correctly, determine
the cause (restriction, refrigerant leak, system
contamination, etc.) and repair it before
continuing.
• If the system is not fully charged, determine if
there are any leaks and repair them before
continuing.
• If the compressor is making noise, repair or
replace it before continuing. Refer to Parts
Information Bulletin A95-0005 for the proper
components.
• If the system has been open to the atmosphere,
replace the receiver/dryer.

RETROFIT KIT INSTALLATION
1. Use the R-12 recovery/recycling station to
remove the R-12 from the system.
NOTE: Failure to remove all the R-12 from the
system will cause contamination of the R-134a
recovery/recycling station.
2. Disconnect the R-12 recovery/recycling
station.
3. 1990 – 91 Accord only: Inspect receiver line
“A.” If the charge valve is fitted to a block and
points toward the alternator, installing the
retrofit valve will leave insufficient clearance.
Install a new receiver line “A” (see PARTS
INFORMATION) with the charge valve
mounted in the line.
4. Use a shop towel wetted with Honda brake
cleaner to clean the threads on the existing
valves. Apply Locktite (included in the kit) to
the threads of the existing valves. Install the
R-134a retrofit valves from the kit.
5. Connect the R-134a recovery/recycling station
to the system. Evacuate the system.
6. Add 120 ml of PAG oil (included in the kit) to the
system.
7. Determine the amount of R-134a refrigerant
needed to charge the system by subtracting 50
ml (1-2/3 oz) from the system’s R-12 capacity.
8. Charge the system with the proper amount of
R-134a refrigerant.
9. Start the engine and let it idle. Turn the A/C
system on and off several times. Listen for any
abnormal noises.
10. Repeat step 9 with the engine running at 1,500
rpm and 3,000 rpm.
11. With the system on, check the cooling
performance at the dashboard vents.
12. Check the high and low side pressures and
compare them to the R-12 specifications. They
should be slightly higher.
13. Turn off the A/C system and the engine.
Disconnect the recovery/recycling station.
Install the caps on the valves.
14. Place the R-134a caution label from the kit over
the existing R-12 label. If the R-12 label is no
longer there, place the R-134a label on the
right damper housing.