95 EX Accord VTEC 2.2 stalling/not starting very long post
10-03-2006, 03:15 PM
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95 EX Accord VTEC 2.2 stalling/not starting very long post
95 Honda Accord EX VTEC 2.2 80k miles. I have a Nissan and a few other cars. Had an 84 prelude for about 12 years. This is my Dad’s car so I am trying to help as much as I can. Car has never given them any problems up till this point.
Here goes the saga:
A few months ago car would not start at times. Taken to local mechanic. He got stuck with it and had to have it towed to shop. They tried the main relay and a distributor. Still wouldn’t start so they pulled those parts out. They couldn’t figure it out and then they had it towed to Honda dealership. Once there the car started and was fine for the 3 days they had it. Even drove it for 80 miles with computer hooked up. Couldn’t figure it out.
Dad gets car back and it starts acting up again. Doesn’t leave him stranded but hard starting. Takes it to another mechanic and he replaced the ignition coil and the igniter because he said he tested them and they were out of spec.
He thought he took care of the problem except for maybe every once in awhile. He thought the keyless entry was causing a problem. I put this unit in for my Dad about 3 years ago and it has been fine. It is not hooked into the starter and the car has no stock alarm. It is only for the locks and it lights the dome lights when unlocked.
I got the car from my Dad after this (he lives about 2 hours away) when they were going out of town. I planned on looking at the keyless system, replacing the muffler and looking into this problem further.
I let the car sit for a few days and then would try and start it every other day. At times it took a few seconds for it to start. I then got the muffler and pipe I ordered and was heading over to a friends house to put it on (can’t work on other cars at my house anymore due to neighborhood restrictions) when the car stalled on me about 3 miles from my house. I could not get it restarted. I even disconnect the keyless and it still wouldn’t start. I finally opened the fuel port on the fuel rail and hardly any came out. I also had my son turn it over while open and no fuel. I also pulled a spark plug and held it against the block and it was sparking fine.
Finally got it started after letting it sit for a few hours. Went to the part store and got a new main relay. Just wanted to make sure. Went to my friend’s house and put the muffler on and drove home.
2 days later went to help another friend after work (with their VW bug not starting) and I got stuck with it after pulling out of the driveway. Pushed it back in and put a test light on the fuel pump harness in the trunk and I got no power on the wire all the way to the left. This is the one the manual said to test. The other 2 were faint power. I tested this same wire when it was running again the next day and I got full power. I figured this ruled out the fuel pump since it runs when it gets power.
I had my friend who has been a mechanic for 30 years look at it with me and we both heard some static type noise from under the dash when trying to turn the key multiple times to energize the relay and get the fuel pump working. We looked at the ignition switch and saw some burnt spots on there. I replaced the whole assembly with a new key. Car seemed to start better but at times it seemed to be losing some of the fuel pressure when sitting for a little while. I would have to turn the key again to build up the fuel pressure and then it would start. I drove it around the block and it seemed better.
Last Saturday I was on my way to my friend’s shop to replace the fuel filter. Needed to be done and I wanted to rule out the pressure drop. I only got about 2 miles down the road and it stalled. We went through the same tests and no power to pump harness. We even test the main relay harness. Then the book called for testing the ECU but you need the special connector so…
I waited till nighttime and the car started and I drove it home. It would not restart when I got home and the main relay felt a little hot to me. For kicks I tried putting the old relay back in and it started up.
I have ordered a used computer but at this point I just want to rule it out. Seems like some electrical wiring problem or something.
I really appreciate any help or ideas. I am starting to wonder if the fuel pump may be pulling too much current. Not sure how to test that though other than replacing it.
David
Here goes the saga:
A few months ago car would not start at times. Taken to local mechanic. He got stuck with it and had to have it towed to shop. They tried the main relay and a distributor. Still wouldn’t start so they pulled those parts out. They couldn’t figure it out and then they had it towed to Honda dealership. Once there the car started and was fine for the 3 days they had it. Even drove it for 80 miles with computer hooked up. Couldn’t figure it out.
Dad gets car back and it starts acting up again. Doesn’t leave him stranded but hard starting. Takes it to another mechanic and he replaced the ignition coil and the igniter because he said he tested them and they were out of spec.
He thought he took care of the problem except for maybe every once in awhile. He thought the keyless entry was causing a problem. I put this unit in for my Dad about 3 years ago and it has been fine. It is not hooked into the starter and the car has no stock alarm. It is only for the locks and it lights the dome lights when unlocked.
I got the car from my Dad after this (he lives about 2 hours away) when they were going out of town. I planned on looking at the keyless system, replacing the muffler and looking into this problem further.
I let the car sit for a few days and then would try and start it every other day. At times it took a few seconds for it to start. I then got the muffler and pipe I ordered and was heading over to a friends house to put it on (can’t work on other cars at my house anymore due to neighborhood restrictions) when the car stalled on me about 3 miles from my house. I could not get it restarted. I even disconnect the keyless and it still wouldn’t start. I finally opened the fuel port on the fuel rail and hardly any came out. I also had my son turn it over while open and no fuel. I also pulled a spark plug and held it against the block and it was sparking fine.
Finally got it started after letting it sit for a few hours. Went to the part store and got a new main relay. Just wanted to make sure. Went to my friend’s house and put the muffler on and drove home.
2 days later went to help another friend after work (with their VW bug not starting) and I got stuck with it after pulling out of the driveway. Pushed it back in and put a test light on the fuel pump harness in the trunk and I got no power on the wire all the way to the left. This is the one the manual said to test. The other 2 were faint power. I tested this same wire when it was running again the next day and I got full power. I figured this ruled out the fuel pump since it runs when it gets power.
I had my friend who has been a mechanic for 30 years look at it with me and we both heard some static type noise from under the dash when trying to turn the key multiple times to energize the relay and get the fuel pump working. We looked at the ignition switch and saw some burnt spots on there. I replaced the whole assembly with a new key. Car seemed to start better but at times it seemed to be losing some of the fuel pressure when sitting for a little while. I would have to turn the key again to build up the fuel pressure and then it would start. I drove it around the block and it seemed better.
Last Saturday I was on my way to my friend’s shop to replace the fuel filter. Needed to be done and I wanted to rule out the pressure drop. I only got about 2 miles down the road and it stalled. We went through the same tests and no power to pump harness. We even test the main relay harness. Then the book called for testing the ECU but you need the special connector so…
I waited till nighttime and the car started and I drove it home. It would not restart when I got home and the main relay felt a little hot to me. For kicks I tried putting the old relay back in and it started up.
I have ordered a used computer but at this point I just want to rule it out. Seems like some electrical wiring problem or something.
I really appreciate any help or ideas. I am starting to wonder if the fuel pump may be pulling too much current. Not sure how to test that though other than replacing it.
David
10-03-2006, 04:21 PM
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Honda-Tech Member
Can't be a battery.
Does the car die after being started? Or is the problem only hard starts/lack of starts? Meaning it only cranks and cranks and cranks.
Did you replace the ignition switch, or did you replace the lock cylinder? It sounds like you replaced only the lock cylinder?
Does the car die after being started? Or is the problem only hard starts/lack of starts? Meaning it only cranks and cranks and cranks.
Did you replace the ignition switch, or did you replace the lock cylinder? It sounds like you replaced only the lock cylinder?
10-03-2006, 05:12 PM
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Re: (Jonathan_ED3)
Yes sometimes the car will die after running for a few miles. And when it does I can try to restart and listen for the fuel pump and it does not come on.
I replaced the whole assembly. New lock cylinder. New switch and two new wire harnesses that came with it. About $155. Thanks for asking.
I replaced the whole assembly. New lock cylinder. New switch and two new wire harnesses that came with it. About $155. Thanks for asking.
10-03-2006, 05:38 PM
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Re: (urbanlegend21)
When it is working properly and I turn the key I hear the fuel pump whirr and the relay click along with the check engine light coming on for 2 seconds. Sometimes it even does it twice. When it stalls or does not start I will not hear the main relay click and the pump will not whirr and sometimes the check engine light then stays on.
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10-04-2006, 03:22 AM
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Re: (ck123)
Starting and charging system all tests fine. Sometimes the car will start fine. Definitely a fuel related issue. When it acts up I get no fuel to rail.
10-09-2006, 11:01 AM
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Re: 95 EX Accord VTEC 2.2 stalling/not starting very long post (portdave)
I have a similar problem with my 1991 Accord EXR.
Haven't figured it out yet.
But... have come to a similar conclusion that the fuel system is being shut off electrically... buy a loose connection or by a sensor, I don't know yet.
Interestingly the 2005 Accords seem to have a similar issue, the problem is in the fuse box / circuit breakers and is a loose terminal affecting the fuel pump, causing it to lose power. SOUND FAMILIAR?
Our car wouldn't start and I put in new plugs, air cleaner, battery, etc. So, to test it I squirted gas into the fuel body and it started and ran briefly... leading me to conclude that spark and air are OK. My problem seems to be in the fuel system.
My father is an old (retired) mechanic and feels the problem is electrical within the fuel system because any mechanical problem such as the fuel pump or fuel filter once it stopped the car should not permit it to start again. Makes sense to me.
Our Honda runs great when it runs, but is unpredictable and can't be trusted. If I learn more I will forward our findings.
Good Luck. I know how you feel.
Haven't figured it out yet.
But... have come to a similar conclusion that the fuel system is being shut off electrically... buy a loose connection or by a sensor, I don't know yet.
Interestingly the 2005 Accords seem to have a similar issue, the problem is in the fuse box / circuit breakers and is a loose terminal affecting the fuel pump, causing it to lose power. SOUND FAMILIAR?
Our car wouldn't start and I put in new plugs, air cleaner, battery, etc. So, to test it I squirted gas into the fuel body and it started and ran briefly... leading me to conclude that spark and air are OK. My problem seems to be in the fuel system.
My father is an old (retired) mechanic and feels the problem is electrical within the fuel system because any mechanical problem such as the fuel pump or fuel filter once it stopped the car should not permit it to start again. Makes sense to me.
Our Honda runs great when it runs, but is unpredictable and can't be trusted. If I learn more I will forward our findings.
Good Luck. I know how you feel.
10-12-2006, 04:40 AM
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Update on 95 EX Accord VTEC 2.2 stalling/not starting very long post (Chad Bicklmeier)
I got the used ECU and put it in 2 nights ago. The car started right up and then it idled for about an hour while I worked on our van. I took it out for a short ride to get some ice cream to celebrate. (Not real confident yet...) Ben and Jerry's Peanut Butter Cup for those curious. Made it back home.
Last night went for a long ride with my wife following me. I had gotten stuck with this car 4 times before the ECU replacement. "Don't have to hit me over the head with no tire tool!!!" Car ran great. Starting up great with no hesitation.
Drove the car to work this morning and it did great. Confidence is getting higher. I really did not think it would have been the ECU but I knew I had to rule it out.
So far so good. I will let you know.
10-12-2006, 07:11 AM
#11
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Hopefully that was the problem!
Did anybody ever do any electrical work on the car? They could have fried something in the ECU, or set the stage for something to fail later on down the road.
Honda ECU's are usually pretty solid. Not like the older Dodge/Ford/Chevy parts....guys come in to replace those like once a year at my parts store. It's pretty much like a tune-up for them!!!!
Did anybody ever do any electrical work on the car? They could have fried something in the ECU, or set the stage for something to fail later on down the road.
Honda ECU's are usually pretty solid. Not like the older Dodge/Ford/Chevy parts....guys come in to replace those like once a year at my parts store. It's pretty much like a tune-up for them!!!!
10-12-2006, 07:20 AM
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Re: (Jonathan_ED3)
Yeah I really just wanted to rule out an ECU problem. I was thinking something else but...like night and day after the ECU was replaced.
The only things I know that were done to the car:
The previous owner used to have a phone permanently wired in and I actually found two wires still running from the fuse box to nowhere. I disconnected them.
My Dad and I installed a crimestopper keyless entry but I have done a bunch of those and it was working fine for 3 years and still works. It is only for the locks and it flickers the lights. No starter kill or alarm.
We will see....
The only things I know that were done to the car:
The previous owner used to have a phone permanently wired in and I actually found two wires still running from the fuse box to nowhere. I disconnected them.
My Dad and I installed a crimestopper keyless entry but I have done a bunch of those and it was working fine for 3 years and still works. It is only for the locks and it flickers the lights. No starter kill or alarm.
We will see....
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