reklipz

Hey folks. I recently purchased a 1991 Honda Accord LX (coupe). The interior is immaculate, but there are a few issues with it. The purchase did not include the owners manual, unfortunately, :/.

First, the throttle pedal (always) sticks at it's fully released position. I read online that this can be due to gunk buildup in the throttle body around the butterfly valve. The recommended fix was to clean the valve / body interior with carb cleaner and a toothbrush, then run the car for a while until the smoke goes away (from the left over carb cleaner).

Second, "the A/C" doesn't work (says the seller). I don't have an owners manual, so I'm not sure how to test this claim. The blower appears to work, and he says the heat works wonders. Any help here would be great; I'll test the air to see if it's cool on my next drive.

Third, the automatic seat belts don't... automate. I checked under the passenger seat, and there are two connectors that aren't connected to anything; I assume the controller (or whatever the module is) is gone and needs to be replaced. I've read online that replacing this could be a terrible idea, as the seat belts could get stuck in the forward (unusable) position. I would really like the automatic belts to work, as it is truly annoying having to reach behind my shoulder (I'm pretty short) to to (un)buckle.

Fourth: When looking at the fuse box to check for a fuse for the seat belts (of which I couldn't find; I looked under the hood in the rear left), I noticed the "Cooling Fan" fuse was missing. I replaced this and didn't think twice. After driving today, I noticed a fan was on after I shut off (only the left front fan, not the right front). I assumed this was normal as the engine may have been hot, and that it would shut off after a few minutes. An hour later, the fan was still on. I'm not sure which fan is which, so clarification on that point would be great. Also, when the key is in the "II" position ("On", I assume, as "I" appears to be "Accessory", and "III" is "Ignition"), the front right fan remains on; I'm wondering if this is normal or not.

Fifth: The key seems to get stuck in the "III" position when starting sometimes. I have to gently turn the key, being careful not to go all the way forward, when starting in order to avoid this. Is this an easy fix?

Sixth: There is a relay dangling on the driver left side; a normally open relay (single pole single throw, I believe). What is this for, anyone know?

Seven: There are lights below the front bumper on either side of the car, but they don't appear to do anything. Anyone know what these are for?

Sorry for the loads of questions! I'm sure I'll have more the more I continue to drive it (I have one about the tranny too, but I'll save it for later). I appreciate any help I can receive; not receiving an owners manual for the car was kind of a bummer, and searching on Google for a 20 year old Make/Model is rather difficult; but I'm doing my best!

Thanks for the awesome forum; I've found quite a bit of good info through the search; lots of content here.

--
Nate

Lost Again

Almost not sure where to start...First, get a manual for the car-not just the owners manual (honda owners link will do for this) but a shop manual as well.

1) Yes, a GOOD TB cleaning is the best place to start...more if that does not solve the issue.

2) Have the pressures tested. Could be a leak or just low-IMO there IS a difference....anyone want to go there, PM me .............. we can get into the science of Freon/134a, size of the molecules, o-ring compounds and sealing abilities....you folks in CA now have new fuel hose because the old hose used for 50+ years leaks gas molecules.

3) This year Accord should still have a lifetime warranty on the seat belts, take it to the dealer.....06 or so they changed.

4) Fan controller sounds like it is bad-should shut off after 10 min. See this for help http://techauto.awardspace.com/overheating.html no telling what was done beofre you got it...sounds like creative wiring IMO....the link and a manual should help.

5) Try Lock-ease as a start. Could be the sign of a bad switch or one in need of some attention.

6) Pic's? Where an what do the wires connect to? Look factory or more creative wiring?

7) Are these the turn signal lights or some thing more like driving/fog lamps----pic's...I'm a visual person.

reklipz

I've been referring to the free guides on http://www.autozone.com/ for diagrams and the like, but I concur, it's not the same as a Chiltons/Haynes manual.

I cleaned the throttle body as prescribed. It didn't appear to help much/at all; it still sticks. It doesn't appear to stick unless the engine is running, however (and perhaps more so if the engine is hot, but this could just be my imagination). I'm glad I cleaned the TB, though. I discovered the intake was all sorts of disconnected. The intake tubing had lots of dirt/sand/gunk in it that I cleaned out.

Okay; how much do you think this will cost to have tested? Winter is coming up shortly, and I don't plan on having the car much past spring (I bought it to buy some time to find the car I'm really looking for).

Alright, cool. I recall reading that the warranty only covers the mechanical portions of the seat belt system, not the electrical. I remember reading that owners were working to have this changed; I'm not sure if that ever happened or not. Still, taking it to the dealer is worth a shot, so long as it doesn't cost much.

I didn't see anything creative under the hood, everything looked wrapped stock. I could be wrong of course. I'll check out the link.

If it begins to get on my nerves, I'll give the Lock-ease a shot. Right now, so long as I'm not in a hurry, I can start the car no problem. On a related note (key!), I have trouble opening the doors and getting the ignition to turn with the key. If I push it all the way in, I can't turn it, I have to have it about 1/16" out in order to unlock doors and turn the ignition, so it could just be the key.

The wiring goes up, behind the dash, and then joins a few other bundles of wires and appears to continue across the dash toward the center of the vehicle. Photo of the dangling relay:


Photo of the units in question:

They are below the headlights, not to the side. The units to the side of the headlights contain the signalling lights, along with some other light, might just be side light for night time driving.

8) The oil pressure light is always on. The previous owner said he replaced the oil pressure switch (I believe it was the pressure switch, and not the oil level sending unit, if the vehicle even has one). When I rev the engine, the light begins to blink at a constant rate about once a second; it will blink sometimes when driving too (I don't pay much attention to it when driving, but I assume it's just trying to start/stop the 1 second cycle when the engine is rev'ed). Any suggestions?

reklipz

I noticed that the selector **** wasn't clicking like I read that it should. I tried to turn the control with a pair of pliers, but it wouldn't budge. So, I took apart the whole dash (someone had done it already, half the screws were already missing) to get to the climate control unit. Once apart, the unit checked out just fine; the clicker arm deal is a little tough to turn even with the cable disconnected, but I assume that's normal. Then, I decided to check the cable to see where it runs. Turns out, it runs to a lever on attached to a valve on a hose to the heater core. I tried turning the lever by hand, and it was tough. I disconnected the cable and the valve turned no problem. Then, I tried pushing/pulling the cable, and viola, it broke free of the corrosion on the end. I hope the valve still works, as the cable/control are now working. I hope this fixes the A/C!

I replaced the fuse this morning before the drive to work, and the fan didn't kick on (with the car off; I assume it kicked on once the engine was running). After getting to work, the fan was off while the car was off; same for the drive home. This leads me to believe the "cooling fan timer" is the culprit. New replacements are $100+; used on ebay for ~$20.

Is this a necessary piece? What is it's purpose?

I'm slowly fixing things on the car, so far nothing major has needed repair.

Also, the rear speakers are blown due to a crappy radio install (they were being driven as subwoofers; this also damaged the aftermarket stereo... :/). I have a pair of 6x9s I need to repurpose; has anyone done a 6.5" round to a 6x9" conversion? I may give it a go; dunno yet.

Lost Again

Don't take this the wrong way, you are all over the place and this is hard to follow.....can we take these one/two at a time?

Oil light-is the oil full? Might think about replacing the oil sending unit. Back side of the block above the oil filter.


Cooling fans- Check the fuse, I'm going to guess it is blown.....Yes the controller is important. Pull it and inspect the inside.

Let us know what you find on these two-IMO, the other stuff can wait....a blown motor and who cares if the speakers work, ac, ect.....

reklipz

Lost Again, I apologize for going ballistic with the questions; I figured it was better to put them all out there so folks could pick and choose to help in different areas. I didn't expect anyone to tackle all of them at once.

I just got done "rebuilding" (heh, more like repairing; didn't use a rebuild kit) my transmission which took priority over all of this thread; thanks for sticking with me.

The dipstick shows the oil level as good. The oil does need to be changed, though, so I will do this when I get home this afternoon. The previous owner said he replaced the oil sending unit with no luck. I will check the unit to make sure it is working (or replace it if it isn't terribly expensive and I can't find out how to test it).

There appears to be an oil leak from the distributor. There are a few bolts missing from the plastic housing, and there was a ton of oil and sludge on top of the transmission. I've read on the forum that the o-ring(s) need replaced and that it's pretty simple to do; I'll give that a shot, clean it up and see if it's still leaking. The previous owner said the valve covers were spewing oil everywhere too, and that he took care of that (I assume he means he replaced the valve cover gaskets), so the rear of the engine is dirty. Is there an easy way to clean the whole engine bay to clear up all of this oil and sludge on the engine? Is this a simple as a degreaser, and if so which should I use?

The fuse was not in place when I received the vehicle. I have replaced the fuse and the fan appears to work. It's been a few weeks since I've driven the car, and I've since forgot the symptoms (car was dead; transmission work needed), but from what I remember, I think I narrowed it down to the controller. The controller is on the driver side of the dash, right?

I couldn't agree more. I'll post back ASAP with some updates.

TooFstCb7

the relay thats dangling is just really really freakin hard to get back to the normal place.. mine is like that also.. and there turning lights. fans could be on a switch,.

reklipz

I found out that these are actually the signalling lights; the ones on the outside of the headlights are signalling as well, but these are the main ones. They were installed on the opposite sides (I could tell by how they fit and the text "STANLEY" being upside down...).

One of them has a blown bulb, and the other is missing the bulb socket entirely; anyone know where I can find a new one cheap?

I didn't get to replace the oil last night; I had to take care of the driver side upper control arm ball joint (comes as an arm/joint unit... oh well; new bushings with it too). It was making a popping noise; the strut is completely shot, and the stud on the ball is stripped. The only thing holding the nut on was the cotter pin; wow!

I also fixed the distributor leak by changing the o-ring. The old o-ring was extremely brittle and worn.

Lastly, I adjusted the throttle cable to remove the slack in the cable. This appears to have helped with the throttle sticking issue, but I'm not sure it's entirely gone.

I'll change the oil, oil filter, and plugs tonight when I get home. I think I'm also going to clean the TB, IACV, and FITV.

reklipz

I removed the relay and tested the blinkers (note, I only have the corner blinkers installed and working, not the lower front signalling lights). The front and rear blinkers still flashed without the relay, so it's not that. Any other ideas?

reklipz

I visited the junk yard last weekend with great success. The seat belts now automate (found a seat belt controller), I found whole new signalling housings with bulb sockets, a few misc. parts for the dash (rear defrost light on the defrost button was burnt out, etc.), and a new cooling fan timing unit.

I purchased a new oil pressure switch, but I'm going to refrain from putting it in until I change my oil next. I have a slight oil leak, and it seems to be coming from the back of the engine bay, so I'm hoping this is due to a bad OPS install and I'll kill two birds with one stone.

I installed the new cooling fan timing unit, but I think I still have problems here. I inspected the old unit and the new unit's innards and they look very much the same. I've been to school for electronics engineering, and both units appear visually to be in working order.

I plugged in the old unit along with the fuse under the hood after having let the engine sit for about an hour. The fan did not come on. I turned the ignition to "on" (the II marking on the column); neither of the fans turned on. I started the car; neither of the fans turned on. The same thing happens with the new unit. I left the new unit in just for good measure.

Does anyone know what the proper operation of the fans in my car is? Ever since I did the test/swap, I've yet to see either fan kick on. I'm pretty sure this isn't normal operation... However, I have also yet to see the oil temperature rise above the normal (slightly below the halfway on the gauge); and it's starting to get a little chilly where I live, it's currently 41 degrees F outside.

Thanks for sticking with me guys; I'm sure I'm starting to seem a bit annoying.

Lost Again

I, along with the help of a good friend, wrote this up a while back. Post #5 from Poorman212 - another friend, has the wire diagram. In #8 I try to talk thru the normal operation.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/questions-regarding-radiator-fans-2989671/

Not that is matters, for personal reasons I haven't been on much in the last few weeks....sorry for the delay.

reklipz

Lost Again,

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
I found that thread while I was at work this morning, but I couldn't find it again here at home.
I'll walk through it and see what I can find out.

reklipz

TL:DR -- Original Cooling Fan Timer Unit was bad, replacement from salvage yard is good. Problem with A/C prevents condenser fan from kicking on (and prevents A/C from kicking on).

The diagram shown in that thread is not the exact diagram in use on my car. I have the equivalent of a KQ or KY "vehicle grade" (as I found out by troubleshooting and following the diagrams), which uses this wiring setup:



Note: all tests were done with the engine cold.

The fuses, relays, and A/C diode all check out. The wiring between the fuses, timer unit, relays, A/C diode, fans and power all check out as well.

The diode is a little quirky with my multimeter, but I think it's working (I should really bias it and measure current rather than ohm/continuity test, but oh well).

With the original timer unit, the fan appeared to come on and off at random, and would do so even when the A/C was off. It seemed at first as though there was an open/short somewhere on the wiring harness leading to the A/C diode, condenser fan relay, and compressor clutch relay assembly, but I think it was just picking up enough static/EMF to cause the timer unit to go haywire. I could never get this to happen with the unit I pulled from the junk yard. However, the unit from the yard does not turn the fans on at all, regardless of A/C status.

So, I've either got two bad timer units, or there is something else going on. The manual says that if neither of the fans turn on that the A/C diode should be checked and that the wire from the A/C diode to the A/C system (says it's a pressure switch) should be checked. I will try and properly check the diode, and also check the switch and wire leading to it.

I'm not so much worried about overheating at this point. Assuming the temperature switch A works (I will have to test), and that the timer unit continues to supply 12V to the relays, I don't use the A/C (I won't, it's winter), the engine should never overheat.

== a while later ==
I checked the A/C Pressure Switch by following the guide in the manual. (Fan blower on, A/C on, car on) When I short the blue w/ black stripe wire to ground (the lead from the A/C Diode), the fans kicked on, and if I have the car started, I can hear the A/C system kick on too (the relay/clutch, and I hear the belt screech, =D). When I shorted it to ground I could hear the engine speed drop a tad (the engine wasn't warm at this point in time). The next step was to bypass the A/C pressure switch, so I did this. The same deal, the fans kicked on kicked on and the A/C system kicked on. This time, however, the engine speed dropped dramatically; close to 500 RPM when I checked the dash. It didn't die, though, and kept going fine. I removed the jumper and the speed didn't change. The next step was to move to the thermostat and do the same short and bypass, but it's getting late so I called it quits. The RPM drop has me worried a bit, but perhaps it just confirms that I need to clean/adjust/tune the IACV/EACV/FITV. I reconnected the sensor and I suspect tomorrow morning it will run as usual, no low RPM.

I also tested the timer unit with the car on (not started):
Bypass thermoswitch A: radiator fan kicks on. Remove bypass on A: fan off.
Bypass thermoswitch B: no change. Turn car off with B bypassed: radiator fan stays on (or kicks on, if A isn't bypassed, which it normally will be if B is, unless it's failed, or you decide you want to have a stare down with the laws of phyics and play with space/time...).

I did the same tests with the old timer unit... not so good. So, it looks like the timer unit was the culprit after all; hurrah for salvage yards!

On to the next item on the list (and tack on a few more: A/C pressure/leak, idle speed control).

reklipz

I started looking into the EACV today. I decided to follow the manual on this one.

I have never seen the CEL light indicate an issue, but following the steps for testing the EACV concludes that I need to try swapping ECUs; not good. What follows is a write up of the steps, and my results.

When I insert the jumper on the CEL connector on the passenger side, the CEL light is on constantly (except for below, when I cause it to throw a CODE 14). Is this normal?

Firstly, the vehicle should have thrown a CODE 14 with the engine running (it shows this as the starting point). (mine did not show CODE 14)

Next, we reset the ECU and see if the car still throws the CODE 14 with the engine running; if not, it says to stop and that the failure was intermittent and the system is now OK. (mine did not show CODE 14)

We then check the EACV itself; Stop the engine and remove the EACV connector. Make sure the resistance between the two terminals is between 8 and 15 ohms (mine was 11 ohms); if not, replace EACV. Check each terminal for continuity to ground (mine had no shorts to ground); if there is one, replace the EACV.

Next, measure the voltage at the connector, with the YEL/BLK terminal as the supply and the BLK/BLU terminal as the return. If there is battery voltage present (mine showed battery voltage), then disconnect the A connector from the ECU (the one with the most pins), and check the voltage again. If there is voltage present (mine did not show voltage present), then you need to fix a short in the BLK/BLU wire between the ECU pin A9 and the EACV connector. If there is no battery voltage (again, mine did not show battery voltage), then you should substitute the ECU for a known-good ECU and see if the symptoms or indication go away, and if so, replace the ECU. (I do not have a known-good ECU to test with, otherwise I would do this)

The rest of the steps check for an open circuit between the EACV and the ECU pin A9, and if there is no open, has you replace the ECU. (the prior steps confirm there is no open)

So, when under the hood, I can hear the EACV making a buzzing sound when the ignition is on. If I mess with plugging and unplugging the EACV connector, I can get the ECU to throw a CODE 14.

I want to note that I didn't have this problem (or at least didn't notice it) with the EACV when I initially purchased the car. In fact, I'm pretty sure it started happening after I attempted to degrease the engine bay. I did not have a hose to clean the engine with, so I instead dumped buckets of water over the engine (not the best idea, but better than leaving the degreaser gel gunk on it...). I'm not certain how that could cause the ECU to go bad, but I find it hard to believe it's coincidental.

What do you recommend I do? Try to find a good ECU at the salvage yard or via a friend, or do you think it's some other system (perhaps the A/C or other system linked with the EACV) that I need to fix first?

reklipz

I apologize in advance for my ramblings; the red text is outdated, updates in green below.
After doing some research, it appears as though having the CEL being on solid when the service jumper is installed is not normal, and indicates a bad ECU. I would really appreciate it if someone who has an ECU without an LED (mine does not have an LED) could confirm that the CEL is supposed to be off when there are no trouble codes and the service jumper is inserted.

I'm planning to head to salvage yard tomorrow and look for a new ECU. I hear I should be looking for a PT3 (which is stock for my car), a PT12 (from a Prelude S; best ECU for an F22A1 with no serious mods), or a PT6 (setup for the F22A6 with different cams; dunno how this affects an F22A1) if I can't find anything else, or even a P06 (which I think is from a Civic). If anyone can confirm or deny these, that would be great.

After doing some more research, I found a post on a Civic forum from a guy who seems to know what he's talking about. Taking his advice, my ECU is not bad, or at least not completely. I'm still going to try and find an ECU at the junkyard, just to rule it out.

reklipz

I removed the throttle body while I had the EACV off in order to clean the intake.

The throttle plate is hitting the throttle body before the stop screw stops it. There are actually small grooves worn into the throttle body from the plate, and you can see that the edges of the plate are worn.

I think the fix for this is to adjust my throttle stop screw, but I believe that requires adjusting the throttle position sensor, and I am unable to find any documentation on how to do this properly. Anyone have any ideas?

== Later ...
I found some information posted by Ghost; I dremeled the screws on the TPS, adjusted the stop screw, adjusted the TPS while hooked to my voltmeter; and viola! Good to go.