C_Rock77

I have a dilemma. I have a 95 Accord EX with a bottom end knock. I found a F22B2 about 3.5 hours away for a good price. From what I've gathered, mating the B2 block to the B1 head isn't that big of a deal. So, there's that option.

I also have a local friend that has a F23A1 from a 98 Accord for sale. Can you guys help me out and let me know what kind of things I might run into with this swap?

I'm just trying to get this car running reliably for the best amount of money.

What would you guys suggest?

alkoholikwun

mating the f22b (1+2) block and head will be easier/cheaper than the f23.

C_Rock77

Why's that?

hondamark35

i know the f23 should bolt in fine.. what i suspect you'd find the most trouble with is the wiring and so forth. the f23 has a non-adjustable distributor (among other things that are different), although i assume your original dist. would bolt in place fine. this would be something to look into.. you would have to make provisions for running an OBD2 motor in your OBD1 car.

depending on the deal you get, expense to put either motor in may be negligable. try to gather as much as you can on the wiring of each scenario for comparison. i think you'll find your answer there.

C_Rock77

Yeah....I know in this whole community, there HAS to be someone that's actually done this swap.

I'm leaning toward going w/ the F23 as opposed to having to drive 7 hrs to get and bring back the F22.

Does anyone know anyone that has actually done this, and can provide some information on what actually works that's not speculation (no offense to people speculating).

GhostAccord

Your chassis is OBD1 and the F23 engine is OBD2 so you will need to do the complete swap of the F23 ECU and wire harness or have fun making all the wires from the F22B1 harness fit the F23. and No your F22B1 dizzy will not bolt up directly to the F23 block amongst other things.

If your only question is what will be the most reliable and easiest on your wallet. The answer is very simple, B2 block swap. But that is obviously not the suggestion your looking for.

Good luck with your F23 swap

C_Rock77

You know all that for sure? I keep getting conflicting information on that. Especially where the accessories are considered. One person says it'll work....others say it won't. I don't have the block at my disposal at the moment. So, I don't know. Which is why I've been looking for someone that's done the swap, themselves.

GhostAccord

facts

98' F23A4 = OBD2
CKP & CYP sensors located on oil pump housing
Saturated injectors w/o resistor

95' F22B1 = OBD1
CKP & CYP sensors located in distributor
Peak & Hold injectors w/resistor

Just to list the few differences that I know for sure.

This swap is not impossible it's just not the cheapest or easiest way to go. That is all I am saying.

raceACCORDingly

like i said on honda society. drop the f23 short block in, take the f22b1 intake mani along with all sensors, injectors (leave oem resistor box entact), etc and bolt it to the f23. extend the crank sensor wires from the oil pump/timing belt area to the dizzy. repin the dizzy connector with the 2 wires you just extend into the 2 left over pins on the plug. leave in the stock p0a ecu. done, complete obd1 f23. f22b1 and f23 are similar enough to run fine on the same maps.

C_Rock77

I don't understand why the extending and repinning are necessary when the sensors in question are IN the OBD1 distributor.

If I'm using the OBD1 engine harness (from the car), yes, the CYP & CKP sensors are at the oil pump housing of the engine, but is there any need to connect those when the sensors are also in the OBD1 distributor that I'm going to be using (and the harness is intended to use)?

C_Rock77

I don't understand why the extending and repinning are necessary when the sensors in question are IN the OBD1 distributor.

If I'm using the OBD1 engine harness (from the car), yes, the CYP & CKP sensors are at the oil pump housing of the engine, but is there any need to connect those when the sensors are also in the OBD1 distributor that I'm going to be using (and the harness is intended to use)?

GhostAccord

Just wondering if anyone has ever encountered the out of hole compression height of the F23 pistons coming into contact with the 85mm combustion chambers of the F22B1 head?

raceACCORDingly

you are right. i was thinking of obd1 engine into obd2 car. my bad.

but does the f22b1 dizzy PnP right into the f23 head? i think when we did this swap for my friend we kept the f23 dizzy cuz his old one was shot and had to the extending.

C_Rock77

AhhhhHA! Now, the truth comes out!!

Now, we're back to wondering if the distributor will actually bolt up. According to one source, they will. We'll just have to verify.

TouringAccord

not that I actually know for sure, just quoting what I saw in the thread.

C_Rock77

Dude...I'm still wondering, myself....I've gotten statements that it definitely WILL from one person...and that it WON'T from another. So, you do the math.

Fireman.142

I dont know if you are still doing this swap, but Im doing the same thing, mines an f22b2 in a 94 accord lx that im swapping out to the f23a also, the dizzy seamed to bolt on just fine and so far switching the sensors and tb havnt been a prob, I just found out that the injectors from the f22 will work on the f23 cuz they are 240cc, but you need to switch them cuz if you use the f22 wiring harness it has a resistor for the injectors, where as the injectors on the f23 are different in that way. my main problem is "piggybacking" the vtec wires for mine cuz it was non vtec. I think we are both in the same hole and could help each other out, cuz this is my first honda Ive owned. From all the import shops Ive talked to and the research I've done it seams that everything will work out, one guy from a shop said he just did the swap and everything worked great you just need to swap a couple things.

Fireman.142

Here is what the guy that helped me out said,

"We just did the same swap in our shop last week. Keep it simple. Use the 94 intake. Use the 94 wiring harness. Your not going to gain anything if you use the OBD2 harness, except maybe a headache. Our 94 was an LX non VTEC. We used a94 EX ECU, piggybacked 2 VTEC wires. Car ran strong! You need 3 wires for VTEC 1 for the solenoid 2 for the VTEC pressure switch. 1 pressure switch wire goes to ground, the other two go to the ecu. Piggyback the 2 by running them from the head to the shocktower along the engine harness. Just tape them along the harness. Make it neat. its easier to do it with the engine out of the car. Instead of just running 2 wires from the VTEC to the firewall. It will look factory." and to put your throttle body on it from yours.

GhostAccord

You might want to check to make sure that the dizzy isn't going to be out 130°. Had a guy do a swap that informed me that the F dizzies are 130° off from each other. It may bolt right up but the timing will be off. So if you get the swap finished and you get a no start with fuel and spark. I would look into the distributors timing.......

Fireman.142

Dang, not what I needed to hear. So what would i do cuz the plugs for the harness are different from the ones off of OBD1 harness, I have two dizzy's for the motor but n idea how to hook them up to the OBD1 harness.

GhostAccord

Like I said I'm not 100%, that's just what I heard. Give your F22B2 dizzy a try first and see what happens. If it doesn't fire up you have a good place to start. After that is when you would think about converting your F23 Dizzy over to OBD1.

I don't think it should be that hard to convert it. Probably just have to de-pin the connectors and swap them out... If your lucky! I'd have to take a closer look at the wiring schematics to be 100% though.

C_Rock77

Yeah...I can confirm that the distributors bolt up. I have no idea about starting the car w/ the F22 VTEC Distributor.

As for all the piggybacking of the VTEC, etc....it's not necessary in my situation. The car I'm starting with is VTEC.

westsidehonda

I am a certified Honda technician and have been down this road so trust me when I say it will work.

I just recently put a 1999 F23 into my wifes 1996 Ody (same as accord). I used just the short block f23 and everything else (manifolds, harness, dizzy, etc.) came off of my old f22 motor.

Since you are starting with a dizzy from a vtec motor you should have no problem; it should bolt up and more importantly fire right up with no modifications. My dizzy came off of a non-vtec motor and works with minor modification. The difference between vtec on non-vtec dizzy is that they are 180 degrees out. In my case that meant I had to either use the wires(so the lengths would be right) from a 1999 non-vtec motor and wire them up opposite on my non-vtec dizzy or just simply remove the circlip & pin from the dizzys drive gear(the part that plugs into the cam) and rotate it 180 degrees then reinstall it. I chose just to rotate the drive gear.

I hope this helps.

Other things I had to swap from my old motor to f23 in order to use my stock harness and obdI computer:
-Coolant flange/pipe on side of head that goes to your upper radiator hose(it has coolant temp sensor)
-2 coolant temp sensors from the rear of the head (tranny side)

westsidehonda

You could also convert an f23 dizzy if you wanted to but I don't see the need. The F22 dizzy has an extra blue wire which is used for tach ref. but is not needed and is eliminated from the f23 dizzy.

westsidehonda

Sorry, I may have fouled you up with some misinformation (it helps if I read the entire post). I just realized you're using a 95 which does have some differences in cylinder position inputs.... but it should still work, the whole 180 degree difference between vtec on non-vtec f-series motors still applies