halversona

-This isn't about purchasing an electric supercharger or discussing them-

I'm new to this site, as in 5 minutes new- honestly, I just picked this forum because in my researching, it was the one that kept popping up with good topic discussions/minimal jack***es.

This is my first post on a car forum, so reply gently. Btw, I tend to overdo my subjects, so I've tried to organize it so ya only need to read what's relevant (bold print) (:

Vehicle:
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2001 Honda Accord EX-L 2.3L 4-cylinder VTEC

Extra Info
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I love my car, great style, great rims, great sound system, excellent peppy engine, etc., and all stock. I like the look of 'all-factory made' goodness, and to me this is probably one of the best 6th gen accords out there
However, the engines peppy, but I'm after a little more 'umph' just to make it comparable to the V6 version.

I would just go trade-up for a very similar V6, I'd be happy to do that, my sibling owns one and I just love that engine sound/feel so much better, but honestly, these 6th gens don't stay on the market long and the ones similar to mine (tinted, spoiler, fog lamps, silver, SE rims) are just hopeless to try to get a hold of around here .. so, I'm just gonna look at what I can do.

I have a good budget.. however, I'm ultimately saving up for a 2010 Ford Taurus SHO, and just looking to get the V6 feel in the meantime. So, I'm keeping it under $1000. More than that, and it's an unnecessary expenditure.

The Gist
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I have an electric supercharger installed on my vehicle- it replaces the air intake tube from the filter-box to the throttle body. It consists of two 63amp electric motors, both which can generate about 1psi at WOT, and together, anywhere from 1.6psi - 1.9 psi, depending on variable conditions. I monitor my electrical system voltage using the radar detector in my car, so it's always on display, and do not use the boosting system without a decent charge.

When I only have one motor active at WOT, the car clearly responds to the increase in air flow and I get a nice quick acceleration through the high RPM's and a good pull when she shifts. Voltage drops from about 14.4V to 13.5-13.0V. To minimize overtaxing my electrical system, I've also wired my ventilation/air conditioning system to the same relay that activates the booster, so when the boosters turn on, it turns off. (it's actually something I'd recommend even without this need, nice performance trick during the summer) The performance is better on some days than others, it feels like if I drive really conservatively for too long, and then I floor it, the car doesn't respond to the boost. My desire to avoid this scenario kinda hurts my gas milage lol

When I activate BOTH, the car barely increases in performance, if not decreasing. Voltage drops from 14.4V to between 13.3V - 12.5V. Shifts are soft and the engine just seems droggy. I have three theories for this, but they're just guesses:

1. The ECU determines the MAF sensor reading to be faulty and discards it to avoid a faulty sensor screwing with the entire system, and goes to a default fuel/ignition timing map.

2. The electrical draw is too great and the alternator kicks in and robs the engine of any horsepower gains.

3. Both 1 & 2.

What I have planned for my next steps
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I'm currently only running one booster, and this makes the car a bit more playful but I want to have both. I wish to purchase a better battery (mines only 525CCA) and MAYBE a high-performance alternator, if deemed necessary. Then, hopefully it'll be able to handle the 120amp draw during WOT without the performance issues.
My OTHER idea was to get my ECU chipped.. I think. At WOT, I want my car to consistently think 'hey! that's right, I got these two glorified fans in my intake tube! let's pump in some more fuel!' instead of 'yawn.. wait.. what? we're moving?'
Perhaps personally chipping my ECU and using uberdata, and create my own maps? Honestly though, I've done research and my cars been confusing to actually find instructions or knowledge on how to chip it to accomplish this feat.

However, if I can take full advantage of this electric supercharger, I'd gladly do a performance ECU and get a new exhaust system to my car as well to finish her off (I'd like dual exhaust anyways).

Personally, I think if all that happened, I'll have accomplished my goal of getting the extra 'umph' What do you guys think?

There is a lot here that can be discussed, honestly I'm happy with my car right now and don't wanna decrease it's market value too much so keeping it as close to stock is what I like to do

Please, only productive posts.. I'm not claiming to have it all right so go easy, but any honest suggestions are very welcome!!

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

I'll be completely serious in this post and simply say this -

Your electric 'superchargers' are absolute junk and in no way benefit your motor. They do not do anything to aid in the performance of it and any 'noticed' effects you claim are simply the placebo affect. There are many many websites, studies, posts, threads, etc that document this. The overall conclusion was yes, yes they will work however only in large numbers - numbers that required additional batteries to function - therefore the added weight of the batteries negated anything gained.

You cannot chip your OBDII ECU, so you can throw that out the window as well. You can downconvert your vehicle to OBDI and run a chipped ECU or can run a standalone system (like a AEM EMS type management system) to accomplish tuning. Both of these are ridiculous for the configuration you have at the moment.

If you want to get actual results, I would recommend you do a few other things first.
1) Read v6performance forums for ideas
2) Remove the electric supercharger
3) Use that $1000 in maintenance items for your vehicle

*edit* Crap, read your statement on the V6 your friend/family has and confused myself. You have an F23. Ignore my #1 suggestion and read though the Accord FAQ here, the 'Boosted F' thread in the Forced Induction section - if you choose to go actual FI, read the Naturally Aspirated threads as well for the F series motor. If your V6 statement you are referencing the 98-02 I would advise against it since the transmissions are garbage. You can search on that as well.

phootbag

Get an alternator with an amperage rating of at least 120 amps. Take your car to someone who has a dyno. Compare to a known stock vehicle. See what the increase actually is.

halversona

I don't want to get in a discussion over the validity of Electrical Superchargers. Yea, literally 95% are all S***, total complete S***. This isn't an online Ebay item.
It isn't placebo either. We've measured this COUNTLESS times on speed improvements over a 1/4 mile of 4-6mph. Nothing rock solid that would sway your opinion, especially since our 'track' is my asphalt driveway, but for 10 second bursts, it'll work.

Keep your opinion, I don't care, honestly, and its better to maintain that they are crap for the sake of the entire automobile performance market... BUT, direct an effort towards answering the question that, *hypothetically*, if this particular design worked, THEN what would one do to ensure the ECU identified this extra airflow on a consistent basis + whatever else was asked...

With that said, I'll continue reading your post and begin looking through your suggestions

halversona

Similar to ones used for high watt sound systems?
And considering that the energy still has to come from the engine, wouldn't it be more effective to get a high-performance battery that wouldn't demand so much from the alternator during the boost?

btw.. I live in the midwest.. in South Dakota.. getting a dyno would be quite the long ride versus just measuring mph at markers.. which is why we haven't.

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Reading the entirety of my post would help with your hypothetical question....

And I don't trust butt dynos, nor should you. If it floats your boat then have at it.

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Based on your voltage readings of 14.4V, I take it you wired these directly to the battery (hopefully fused!) and are registering the voltages across the terminals? Obviously getting a good battery will help - Odyssey batteries are probably what you'll want to look for (probably the 'Yellowtop' variant.) A higher output alternator however would help.

Interesting read for you - though since you are already defending your purchase I have a feeling it is of little use:

http://www.wildweasel.ca/HowTo/Auto/eturbo.aspx

77777

damn i think i can get better than 1.9psi if i shove a tube up my *** and attach the other end to the intake and drive around eating burritos.

theres a reason no one does this, because its absolutely ****ing stupid. makes one of those $300 ebay turbo kits seem like a half decent idea.

KRNtUnEr

Generally if you want to increase the performance of your car...you have to address two issues:

1)Intake

2)Exhaust

A lot of times manufacturers install parts onto cars in order to decrease the power so that it meets market requirements(I heard it somewhere so don't quote me on that)...By switching out your air intake with an aftermarket intake...you're allowing unrestricted air flow into the cylinders...Looking at the Law of Conservation of Mass...what goes in must come out...Switching out your OEM exhaust with an aftermarket cat-back exhaust will allow more unrestricted exhaust flow...In doing so...you'll have the maximum allowable amount of air going into your cylinders since you're limited to the size of your engine...But naturally aspirated engines only creates a vacuum in order to draw in air...Thats why people go with turbochargers(which uses your exhaust to force air into your cylinders)...superchargers(which essentially uses your timing belt)...and even nitrous oxide(which has a greater concentration of oxygen than that of air)...I've tried the "electric superchargers" and they tend to fail rather quickly even when using NASCAR brake fans made by Detmar...My guess is that the motors cannot handle the stresses associated with this operation as well as the fan blades not being made for that application...If you want to stay under $1000 then these are my recommendations:

1)Invest in a quality air-intake from a well known company(i.e. AEM, INJEN, etc.) ~$400

2)Purchase an aftermarket cat-back exhaust with mandrel bends(emphasis on mandrel bends) ~$300 on eBay

3)Check your VTEC Solenoid Filter(VTECs are known to have clogged filters at some point)

4)Change your oil when your maintenance light comes on

5)Use fuel injector cleaner(probably every other tank)

These are your best options to increase the performance of your 2001 4cyl Accord while keeping the car reliable...If you want more performance gains...then you have to invest more than $1000 on a turbocharger...supercharger...or an engine swap(try an H22 or H23 VTEC engine)...or even sell your Accord and purchase a car that already has the performance you want straight from the factory(i.e. Subaru Impreza WRX/WRX STi, Mitsubishi Lancer Evo, etc.)

Bwill9886

This. If you wanted to do it I would definitely be interested in your results. Not because they would change my mind about ES, but because it would at least show results you can expect from this "technology."

You making this thread the way you have only encourages what you said you don't want: discussion over the validity of electrical superchargers.

That really doesn't matter though. Just because it isn't "ebay" doesn't mean that it can automatically be taken more seriously. It's the idea as a whole that suffers a negative stigma.

We don't want to get into a discussion over the validity either because frankly the subject has been beaten to death. The conclusion? They can make power, but you'll need so much battery power it won't be worth it.

Ok... not really sure why you posted all this general info here, but some of it's good... of course, some of it is also not so good. I cut the quote down to what I wanted to address.

1) There is quite a bit more to address than intake and exhaust when it comes to performance. I guess for the "bolt on" stage that works, but when it comes to FI there are many more variables. (You may be agreeing with me when you say "generally" and if that is so, disregard this)

2) You don't have to pay anywhere NEAR 400 dollars for a good air intake. An ebay pipe and a quality filter will do just fine. If you are paying over 150 for intake piping and the filter, you are wasting money.

3) You can get decent exhausts off ebay, but you need to be careful who you are buying from. I have found it easier (and it can be cheaper) to find your nearest exhaust shop, get to know them, and get them to make you some piping. Then buy a nice muffler of your choice.

4) No need to check the VTEC solenoid unless you notice problems. If it isn't broke, why try to fix it?

5) I don't know about a lot of people, but my maintenance light hardly coincides with my oil change intervals. While it is a good reminder, it doesn't NEED to happen then.

6) You are wasting fuel injector cleaner BIG TIME if you are doing it every other tank. Obviously the intervals can vary because of the amount different people drive every year and the kind of gas they use but it shouldn't be done more than once every other year (and that may be too much for most people).

DCFIVER

Waste of time. Period. (MuffinMan covered it nicely)

adams90crx@msn.com

attach a generator to you trunk!!!! You'll get plenty of juice then!!!!

Balwin

If youre that desperate just use nitrous. It will make more power with less money than you have probably already spent.

JDM Panda

I can't belive I just read all that.. Im going to taco bell to emotionaly eat...