mrDFWmechanic

why do they put gsr crankshafts inside ls blocks. i dont understand what the difference is ? can somebody please inform me

NJIN BUILDR

GSR has a little less stroke and a longer,stronger connecting rod.A little better r/s ratio.
Glenn

mrDFWmechanic

well i already have eagle rods for an ls so i can't use those on the gsr crankshaft right

0project dc2

iTrader: (1)

correct. you LS rods- ls crank

GSR rods - GSR crank


you can put an LS crank in a GSR block but youll have to use LS rods
vise versa.

mrDFWmechanic

ohhh ok thanx for clearing that up

FormulaGSR

i guess there are more gsr cranks out there than blocks. So people make a poor mans GSR. I dont see any other reason to use a ls block over a gsr other than availibility

mrDFWmechanic

u dont see another reason to use an ls block over a gsr ?? how about the block being perfect for boost

nfn15037

How is an LS block any better for boost than a GSR block? Extra webbing for stiffness, better main bearing support, oil squirters all add up to make the GSR block far superior. And I don't care what anyone says about oil squirters not being necessary with forged internals, thats bullshit since anything that carries heat away from the piston is a good thing.

ndogg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nfn15037 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How is an LS block any better for boost than a GSR block? Extra webbing for stiffness, better main bearing support, oil squirters all add up to make the GSR block far superior. And I don't care what anyone says about oil squirters not being necessary with forged internals, thats bullshit since anything that carries heat away from the piston is a good thing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

totaly agree

some people say that ls blocks are better for boost because they come with lower compression. thats probably where this guy is getting that. this is also untrue though. stock, both a gsr and ls block are limited to aproximately the same hp numbers. and the gsr head has way more potential. the only benifit to an ls is that it is cheaper.

95GSRTT

if they are both built blocks it doesnt matter either way, except the guy with the ls payed a few hundred less for his block.

And you may be right about the oil squirters, but the fact that just about everyone takes them out anyways, kinda makes your point mute. People run perfectly fine without them.

95GSRTT

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NJIN BUILDR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GSR has a little less stroke and a longer,stronger connecting rod.A little better r/s ratio.
Glenn</TD></TR></TABLE>

And wouldnt the gsr rod be SHORTER? which allows it to rev higher with less issue?

nfn15037

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95GSRTT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if they are both built blocks it doesnt matter either way, except the guy with the ls payed a few hundred less for his block.

And you may be right about the oil squirters, but the fact that just about everyone takes them out anyways, kinda makes your point mute. People run perfectly fine without them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Kinda makes my point "moot" maybe?

At any rate, regardless of what "people do", that doesn't make something right or ideal. The fact that nearly all purpose built race motors and many factory forced induction and even non FI cars (P72 block is a good example) have oil squirters should be a good indication. They are there to carry heat out of the pistons and forged or not, this is a good thing considering it will cool the piston hence loweing combustion chamber temps and staving off detonation.

The LS has a longer stroke crank, hence a shorter rod. Rod length doesn't have all that much to do with rev-ability, read up on rod/stroke ratios and how it affects piston speed.

Sorry for the OT everyone

shermanyang

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95GSRTT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

And wouldnt the gsr rod be SHORTER? which allows it to rev higher with less issue?</TD></TR></TABLE>


yeah the GSR has shorter rods due to the shorter stroke.

Jared

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shermanyang &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


yeah the GSR has shorter rods due to the shorter stroke.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wrong. If the GSR had shorter rods, with a shorter stroke, and the same block deck height, the pistons would be no where near the combustion chamber. GSR rods are longer. Center to center length is GSR 5.433, LS 5.394.

manekDC2.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nfn15037 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How is an LS block any better for boost than a GSR block? Extra webbing for stiffness, better main bearing support, oil squirters all add up to make the GSR block far superior. And I don't care what anyone says about oil squirters not being necessary with forged internals, thats bullshit since anything that carries heat away from the piston is a good thing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

LS block's are good for boost b/c you can get them cheap and then spend the rest of the money for sleeves and forged internals.. they also make a little more tourqe with their stroke then the gsr.. thats about it.. also when you put the gsr crank in there you get a diff. ratio of stroke so you can rev higher with the longer gsr rods.. bigger turbo's like to breathe up top, so thats why they do it.. the longer the stroke on the crank and smaller the rod, more tq. but less rev. duration..

oil squirters are good yess, but advantages of not having them with forged internals are...

1. more even distribution of oil pressure
2. less weight on the rod/piston
3. more oil will be accumlated towards the bearings, instead of being shot onto the piston/rod
4. windage increases

they aren't bad, but then again not nessecary with forged internals and have better gains..

i understand about drawing heat away from the piston.. but how much heat.. that oil is ******* already hot to begin with, so if anything when that oil is applied its going to have a rise in temp, and as its recirculating back around the heat is only going to increase..

im not saying i dissaprove of them.. im just saying not having them isnt bad either, becuase there are acutal gains achieved..


Modified by manikgsr at 10:13 PM 4/9/2005

NJIN BUILDR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95GSRTT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

And wouldnt the gsr rod be SHORTER? which allows it to rev higher with less issue?</TD></TR></TABLE>
LS rod is 5.394",GSR is 5.430"(Eagle Numbers).Longer rods (r/s ratio) makes for better geometry at higher rpm.
Glenn

DaX

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95GSRTT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

And wouldnt the gsr rod be SHORTER? which allows it to rev higher with less issue?</TD></TR></TABLE>

..and make less torque.

shermanyang

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jared &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Wrong. If the GSR had shorter rods, with a shorter stroke, and the same block deck height, the pistons would be no where near the combustion chamber. GSR rods are longer. Center to center length is GSR 5.433, LS 5.394.</TD></TR></TABLE>


whoops, Jared thanks for the correction. i guess i was thinking out of my ***...LOL. yeah the b18c1(94+) has a rod length of 5.433, LS 5.394.

i guess i was thinking about the B16 or B17 cause last time i measured those up they were shorter than the LS rods. i think B16's are 5.29 and B17's are 5.208.

john d

i have one for sale, let me know

FormulaGSR

i think the main point is for people without sleeves. They can run a gsr crank and forged internals. If they crack a sleeve they can rplace the block and reuse the internals and crank. without spending the extra money on a gsr block. like i said poor mans GSR. Bu tin the long run i rather have a leeved GSR with forged internals. Do it righ tthe first time out.

nfn15037

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by manikgsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
oil squirters are good yess, but advantages of not having them with forged internals are...

1. more even distribution of oil pressure
2. less weight on the rod/piston
3. more oil will be accumlated towards the bearings, instead of being shot onto the piston/rod
4. windage increases

they aren't bad, but then again not nessecary with forged internals and have better gains..

i understand about drawing heat away from the piston.. but how much heat.. that oil is ******* already hot to begin with, so if anything when that oil is applied its going to have a rise in temp, and as its recirculating back around the heat is only going to increase..

im not saying i dissaprove of them.. im just saying not having them isnt bad either, becuase there are acutal gains achieved..


Modified by manikgsr at 10:13 PM 4/9/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

*shrug* I have no problems with oil pressure on my boosted GSR w/ oil squirters.

As for drawing heat out of the piston, well the oil is maybe 250*F MAX and the combustion chamber can be as hot as 1200+ degrees. Heat is drawn out of the piston and into the oil, which goes through the oil cooler and is radiated into the air. My car is built to withstand 40+ minute track sessions as well as a Targa Newfoundland rally( 2200 KMs of open road) so for the .0323248 whp I would gain without the squirters, I will take 'em, I would think anyone who street drives their car would want them also. I figure if you got 'em, keep 'em if not don't worry about it.

HiProfile

Not to fuel any fire, since I'm not for nor against squirters - it depends on the application (as usual). The deal is that *properly tuned* cars don't have probs with burning up pistons. You see many more *properly tuned* motors seize up due to bearing failure than to detonation (also assumes they aren't running insane timing/87 octane/etc). The deal is that stock LS motors run fine boosted w/o sqirters, as well as stock gsr blocks w/squirters run fine boosted.

It comes down to if you're racing or want to run more timing/leaner a:f.


As to the topic itself, LS blocks don't require any modification to put pre-modded gsr components on it. If the person doesn't need squirters (for mentioned reasons), wants to save cash, and already has the gsr parts, why not get an LS? On average you can find an LS block with less miles for less cash than a gsr block.