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What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

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Old 01-04-2017, 04:41 AM   #51
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

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I believe they were designed for a 5 bolt hotside turbo perhaps shodan can confirm this, I had one a couple years back but had issues with my 4 bolt DP
Looks like you confirmed this yourself 3-4 years ago

Inline pro manifold Please Help
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Old 01-05-2017, 11:31 AM   #52
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

Thanks to this thread I pulled the trigger on the inline pro setup.

cristian at inline pro gave me $100 off a manifold, so it was 515 shipped for the stainless steel T3 version, having greg at go autoworks fab a dump tube and downpipe specific to my turbo, luckily my turbo has both 5 bolt and 4 bolt discharge bolt patterns. Hes also selling me an adapter from 2 bolt 38MM to vband Wastegate. everything is A/C compatible

The 2.5 to 3" Downpipe and dumptube is about $500 so its roughly the same cost as his mini ram hot parts kit maybe even a bit cheaper.

Just food for thought
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Old 01-05-2017, 01:18 PM   #53
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

Maybe I am missing something...

Why are down pipes and dump tubes so friggin expensive?

I can weld, cut, fabricate decently- I have done roll cages that pass tech inspections etc. Is there some sort of voodoo magic in a down pipe or dump tube that isn't easily done???? Please cure me of my ignorance.
I seriously considered making my own manifold but decided against it.
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Old 01-05-2017, 01:31 PM   #54
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

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Maybe I am missing something...

Why are down pipes and dump tubes so friggin expensive?

I can weld, cut, fabricate decently- I have done roll cages that pass tech inspections etc. Is there some sort of voodoo magic in a down pipe or dump tube that isn't easily done???? Please cure me of my ignorance.
I seriously considered making my own manifold but decided against it.
Because manufacturers look at kits as a bulk metal fab project. Not one little piece. It takes triple the time and labor over the cost of the materials to make a dumptube. Plus, it has to route the correct way depending upon the exhaust manifold.

This is why no one sells a dumptube independently. If you have the skills to fabricate, and want to get it perfect for the exhaust manifold you have, it would be in your best interest to simply make your own dump tube.
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Old 01-05-2017, 01:36 PM   #55
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

very true, Heck if your really good at welding you could even make your own manifold. In fairness the downpipe in 2.5" is $300 and its a extra $100 if you want it flared to 3"

he also uses TIG which is not cheap for the welder itself. All i can say is the guys at GO auto have mad skillz and I dont know how to weld

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Old 01-05-2017, 07:05 PM   #56
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

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Because manufacturers look at kits as a bulk metal fab project. Not one little piece. It takes triple the time and labor over the cost of the materials to make a dumptube. Plus, it has to route the correct way depending upon the exhaust manifold.

This is why no one sells a dumptube independently. If you have the skills to fabricate, and want to get it perfect for the exhaust manifold you have, it would be in your best interest to simply make your own dump tube.

I manage a small specialty construction business, I fully understand this.
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Old 01-05-2017, 07:09 PM   #57
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

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very true, Heck if your really good at welding you could even make your own manifold. In fairness the downpipe in 2.5" is $300 and its a extra $100 if you want it flared to 3"

he also uses TIG which is not cheap for the welder itself. All i can say is the guys at GO auto have mad skillz and I dont know how to weld

I own both TIG and MIG welders, (expensive to buy), I will not even try to say I TIG nearly as pretty as that!

I just wanted to make sure I was't missing out on some special thing about these.
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Old 01-05-2017, 07:22 PM   #58
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

I forgot to add an update.

My engine is about done at the machine shop, i stopped in yesterday. Bore and hone is done, cylinder is decked, just waiting on the re-sizing of the rods. Since the rods were used he is replacing the bronze bushings in the small end.

Now my deck has been cut before and apparently the sleeve install was less than stellar. So we are looking at pistons out of the hole by a few thous.

Since he was going to re-bush the rods, he said he can just offset drill the rods to compensate for the PTD issue. SWEET!

The next good news was the rod cap alignment bushings would not come out of the small side of the rod without severe mutilation, so he checked in on a new set from eagle- 3 weeks... He said he will just make a set and move on. He was't about to wait 3 weeks for them either!
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:00 PM   #59
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

just want to add depending on where you source the flex section that can be arround a 100, but if you have the tools and the skills im sure you can save yourself quite a bit

good luck on your build keep us updated
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:11 AM   #60
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

its windy, cold and rainy today. I decided now was great time to disassemble my turbo.

It was advertised as a garrett t3/gt40 blowzilla that should be rebuilt.

I get it apart and realize yes it needs a rebuild. But i see no marking on the pressure side housing saying garrett, the hot side (exhaust mount flange) says garrett. what gives?
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Old 01-08-2017, 02:46 PM   #61
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

This seems suspect to me as well.
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Old 01-08-2017, 10:27 PM   #62
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

every pic i can find online looks just as your does, seems a bit large of a choice for a street car tho

your on a b16 correct? thats not gonna leave much of a usable power band for street use at all
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Old 01-09-2017, 10:55 AM   #63
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

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its windy, cold and rainy today. I decided now was great time to disassemble my turbo.

It was advertised as a garrett t3/gt40 blowzilla that should be rebuilt.

I get it apart and realize yes it needs a rebuild. But i see no marking on the pressure side housing saying garrett, the hot side (exhaust mount flange) says garrett. what gives?
Many Garretts are like that. You're thinking a bit too deep here expecting eBay "Zebras". Look for the "A" on the compressor wheel blade itself, and the CHRA. then you know it's a Garrett product. What's on the compressor cover is irrelevant.
Generally speaking for Journal bearing setups, T04E and T04B compressor covers have the Garrett name as part of the cast mold, but not always. On the T04S, like you have there, unless it's the Garrett ported-shroud, it won't have the Garrett name on the compressor cover. On the GT series, including GTX Gen 1 & Gen 2, they'll have a Garrett stamp on their covers regardless of size.

The backplate is a newer line, and comes from a variety of sources, there's nothing wrong with that. Only the Out-of-the-box T04E standard sized 50,57,60 "trim" backplates actually have a stamp with the ugly backplate on them. But there's no real concern there, really.. The GT series has a riveted stamp on the CHRA, not the backplate. But those can easily fall off.



On the other illustration, that looks a little scored. That means at one time that this unit was oil- starved, causing a shift in the front thrust bearing, and that the front thrust bearing may be bad. Get a good photo of both the thrust bearing, and front journal bearing. ( and turbine shaft if you've by chance removed it. That will tell you more of the story), and you can be sure it can be reused. If it can't be, you'll require a new backplate, which is outside of a standard "rebuild" cost that you may have been given by a repair facility. Also check the back of the compressor cover for any scarring or compressor wheel contact due to the thrust bearing shift.

Yes, that IS big for a street car with a B16 engine, even if it does have the smaller turbine wheel. But, hey...
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:19 AM   #64
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

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Yes, that IS big for a street car with a B16 engine, even if it does have the smaller turbine wheel. But, hey...
This is a big turbo? I thought it was only capable of 400-Ish HP.

Thank for all of the Garrett info. I feel better now.
Also Mr shodan- how are the vibrant intercoolers?
Worth buying or just like all the other cheap units?


I picked up my engine last night. I will start assembly soon. Pretty excited!
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Old 01-10-2017, 08:54 AM   #65
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

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This is a big turbo? I thought it was only capable of 400-Ish HP.

Thank for all of the Garrett info. I feel better now.
Also Mr shodan- how are the vibrant intercoolers?
Worth buying or just like all the other cheap units?


I picked up my engine last night. I will start assembly soon. Pretty excited!
Yes. for a B16, built or not, it is rather large.

Remember, power output doesn't necessarily determine the behaviour of the turbocharger. It will not respond quickly, because of the large compressor wheel output in correlation to your displacement, and it will not make much more than about 468whp (approximately) due to the smaller turbine wheel that's matched with it.

So, I stand by my statement, from personal use with this on some other cars in addition to the math. By the time you rebuild it properly, that money could go to a better matched turbo that better meets the need.
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:00 AM   #66
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

I have heard nothing but good things about the vibrant cores.

from what im reading they are almost as good as a garrett core, thinking about picking one up myself. Go autoworks has an option for a 500 HP unit I think it was about $430 its an extra $60 or so if you want the garrett core
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:03 AM   #67
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

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Yes. for a B16, built or not, it is rather large.

Remember, power output doesn't necessarily determine the behaviour of the turbocharger. It will not respond quickly, because of the large compressor wheel output in correlation to your displacement, and it will not make much more than about 468whp (approximately) due to the smaller turbine wheel that's matched with it.

So, I stand by my statement, from personal use with this on some other cars in addition to the math. By the time you rebuild it properly, that money could go to a better matched turbo that better meets the need.
That makes sense to me. I was looking at inline pro manifolds and mini rams horns to decrease the aniticpated lag and hopefully lower the rpms
Power band range a bit.

The big question is can I have my cake and eat it too?

Is there a decent turbo that will get me in the 400+ hp range and still spool quick enough to make street driving enjoyable?
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:51 AM   #68
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

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This is a big turbo? I thought it was only capable of 400-Ish HP.
can you confirm the exhaust wheel size? this is showing up a a 65 lbs per min turbo for me (from what shoadan is saying this could be sold in more then one configuration)

depending on your expectations you will never find instant spool at 400+, there are turbos that do a very good job at it such as silver surfer, to4e variants etc. although the b16 complicates that a bit you generally get longer spool times with smaller displacement

I was getting full spool with my t04e at about 4.5K with a ramhorn mani but im on a 1.8 well thats my old setup hehe. Hopefully I will be able to post the results in about a month to show a completely unbiased log vs ram debate
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Old 01-10-2017, 01:57 PM   #69
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

I would be fine with a much broader torque band than just a high hp number than is unattainable in regular street use.

But I'd still like to know about the vibrant intercoolers.

Maybe a new turbo is in my future. Shodan have one to sell that may fit my goals without sinking my budget?
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:19 AM   #70
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

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I have heard nothing but good things about the vibrant cores.

from what im reading they are almost as good as a garrett core, thinking about picking one up myself. Go autoworks has an option for a 500 HP unit I think it was about $430 its an extra $60 or so if you want the garrett core
Yeah,no.. Not even close for the same surface area given. I've had 400hp Garrett cores (18" x 8" x 3") get to over 540whp before getting heat soaked, and the same larger 550hp Vibrant core (25" x 9" x 3.25") get heat soaked by close to 500whp.

All in the design, my friend.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:30 AM   #71
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

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I have heard nothing but good things about the vibrant cores.

from what im reading they are almost as good as a garrett core, thinking about picking one up myself. Go autoworks has an option for a 500 HP unit I think it was about $430 its an extra $60 or so if you want the garrett core
I'm running the 1300 hp vibrant core and it works great for 300 bucks it was worth it.

I had a Garrett core as well and it also worked very well too.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:05 AM   #72
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

Yea they may not be as good as a garrett but it seems for the price they are hard to beat. Im currently on a china core anyway. the one im looking at now is about $200 and rated at 500HP should be just fine for my usage.

thanks to both for the info
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:42 PM   #73
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

okay thanks guys, i do appreciate the real world input 2kdrift and az_civic.

Im just starting to research air to water intercoolers. give it more of a sleeper look. My buddy has some starfish rims from his del sol i could probably get dirt cheap I don't like them, but they sure scream slow... hehehehe
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:03 PM   #74
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

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okay thanks guys, i do appreciate the real world input 2kdrift and az_civic.

Im just starting to research air to water intercoolers. give it more of a sleeper look. My buddy has some starfish rims from his del sol i could probably get dirt cheap I don't like them, but they sure scream slow... hehehehe
Air-to-water is cool, but very complicated in Honda engine bays.

Here's one from my brother's Old EG from 2004 that my friend/builder designed. There wasn't much cooling any better on any streets, but it did help during between staging. He was the drag racer, while I was not.




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Old 01-11-2017, 06:07 PM   #75
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Default Re: What is the Difference in build components between 400whp-800whp?

IMO air to water is too much hassle it requires its own system to circulate the water, im all about sleeperness I just painted a thin coat black on my cooler



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