TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

The AVCR uses a Denso solenoid and doesn't follow the secondary set of ports theory on this. You want to use a "Y" splitter on the port that normally goes straightto the Intake manifold or turbo compressor. Not from the wastegates themselves. That's what the other port is for on the Denso solenoids.

Here's the Denso solenoid from the AVC-R



You want to use the port facing the front of the picture for the "Y" split.

Check here about the different solenoids that are used. They are not at ALL the same.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/lets-talk-electronic-boost-controllers-3210811/

joe b

I would have thought that running 2 solenoids would over load the apexi controller and burn out the unit . So you run 2 solenoids with no ill affects on the controller ? Very interesting . I have a spare solenoid and would love to try this as long as it would not burn out the controller . Any one else running a setup like this ?

Steeve_Civic

Thank you, I read that you were running AVCR, would you advise running 2 solenoid 3 ports with it?

joe b

Anyone ? Wanting to wire in 2 solenoids to the Avcr .

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

No. The single solenoid can support over 50psi repeatedly and reliably. Been doing that for over 15 years..

HiProfile

A single 3-port solenoid may work at very high pressures (theoretically up to 120psi for the MAC solenoid IIRC), but it will not provide controllable high boost with a low boost spring. 2-3x over spring pressure is the max for a single 3-port in most cases, while a dual 3-port or single 4-port will let you get over 3x the controllable boost range with a single spring pressure.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

which means in most cases, staying with a single is just fine, even for the Boost-By-Gear enthusiasts.

2000CTRSi

Still waiting for tony to repost that diagram.

Staying with a single on a small spring just doesn't work in cases where user will surpass 3x the spring pressure.

CMON TONYYYY

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

small spring, under 1bar, that's very true.. But, you have to be specific as in what you mean by "small spring"...you'd be surprised.. its all in which solenoid you use, not just the number of ports, or even the number of solenoids in all cases. It does make a difference, as with the entire combination of wastegate size, springs, turbocharger and boost pressure level.

Its not that black & white as you think.


I'm sure Tony will clarify my specific statements in the correct context further.

joe b

In my case it isn't cutting it . A low waste gate spring say 9 psi won't hold 27 psi with the Apexi Avcr running in oem configuration. I was recently pmed by Tony and he told me the Avcr will run 2 of the oem solenoids . That's all i needed to know . Now for me it's all trial and error . The solenoid that is on the bottom half of the gate bleeds off boost as the duty cycle increases when i turn up the boost and the other solenoid increases boost pressure to the upper half of the gate, keeping it closed longer . One would need to utilize the middle port on the lower waste gate solenoid so that it can bleed off excess boost . I think that's right .It is going to be a first for me . Currently i am making more power than ever before but yet the car is no faster and this is due to poor power management for the first 330 ft .

Tony the Tiger

I've re-uploaded the diagram for you guys

joe b

Tony , thank you very much for your expertise on this . There is lots of garbage posted on this forum , but also some excellent info from people like you .

Cheers ! Joe Breton

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

How comforting to know . Especially when one tries to use a 7psi spring for 27psi in the first place. But I'm glad Tony was able to satisfy the diagram for such an attempt.

joe b

One can only try .

2000CTRSi

I'm using a 7psi spring for 30 with dual gm dual ports. What's your point?

HiProfile

That "failure" making 27psi with a 7psi spring just might need something as low as 7psi on a [literally] rainy day, or maybe it's a rally car doing an ice/pavement race. If people were satisfied with "use what works", you wouldn't have a job. We'd all be running (or saving up for) naturally-aspirated flathead V8's in Crown Vics.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Hey,.. to each. Rainy day or not, I've found its not the most feasible for stable boost control and accuracy. As I said.. carry on.

Steeve_Civic

Thank you
I have a problem already with my avcr I cannot go less than 23PSI in first gear.
Running 2 Tial with 15psi spring
When off no problem but when 60% duty can go 32 PSI but -40% in 1st and 2nd I hit around 23 PSI with spinning.
What do you advise me to reduce boost?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Lower duty cycle in the 1st several gears. Better tyre. Learn to stay out of WOT with better throttle control with your brain.

Steeve_Civic

How to lower more in first gear?
Can I use scramble switch?
Moreover, can I boost more than 33PSI with AVCR and map sensor?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

With the Denso sensor, yes, you can go up to 43psi.

It's been a few years since using the AVC-R, but I believe that as long as settings A & B are set with a tune, you could very easily use its scramble feature.

for first gear, its called "your foot".. throttle less, to control wheel spin, or use the boost-by-rpm feature of the AVC-R.

tepid1

He's using it in a drag application, Mac. Closing the throttle body is a no-no. lol

Steeve_Civic

Thank you

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Ah yes.. drag application.. Excuse me for thinking otherwise. hehehe.

Tony the Tiger

Stretching the most out of the spring successfully has a lot of variables though, but most cases that if the turbine is about to max out with high back pressures, it becomes a lot more difficult to get more boost. I think I have covered this on another thread, but I figured I post it again

A lot of drag oriented setup or shall i say, very aggressive street setups (like a downpipe sticking out of the hood) can get away with a much smaller spring because they have well sized (or slightly oversized) turbos with minimal exhaust pressures. With no exhaust pressure fighting against your wastegate, it is much easier to get more boost on the same spring.

So if you are trying to "max out" a smaller turbo, but at the same time, you want to get 3x or more out of the base WG spring, it becomes very very difficult.

On my Camry, I had a 4-port solenoid and then switched to a dual 3-port solenoid to see if it works better. On the top-end range of boost, both setups were about the same. I have a 14 PSI spring in there, and the base boost will hit 14 PSI and creep slightly to 16 PSI on the gate only.

The dual 3-port does have more resolution on the low-end, meaning that there was more control between 14 PSI to 25 PSI. Beyond that, the control was similar between the 3-port and the 4-port. To hold 20 PSI, I was at 20-22% DC on the 4-port, and about 45% on the dual 3-port.

Beyond 20 PSI, it really depends on where the turbo is operating on its efficiency ranges. The amount of boost can be easily intervened based on my timing and AFR, so the most critical part was to control the peak "hit" of the turbo and let it settle. Once the boost/turbo settles, either the 4-port or dual 3-port managed to hold boost up to 38 PSI with no spikes and very minimal fluctuations.

To hold 30 PSI, I only needed 50% DC from the solenoid, but to get from 30 PSI to 36-38 PSI (maxing out my turbo), I basically used up all the duty cycles and it's 70% at the hit @ 5800RPM, but 90% or more to keep it afloat up to 8400RPM.

The solenoid wasn't able to soften the hit of power, so I had ECU timing maps tuned to soften up the power transition.

I know it's not a Honda, but I apply it the same fashion for my Integra. I don't have enough power on the Integra to display the setup, but my Camry does have enough power and FWD, and you can see how I can manage to make 1028 WHP hook on 225-wide Nitto NT01 street tires stretched on a 9.0" rim (this is a very recent video too):

Camry vs Alpha 12 GTR: