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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
I'll give this a go, however, due to some time commitments I may not be able to necessarily go too in-depth at the full statistical /scientific diagnoses.
Originally Posted by Mjalaly
So a few things came up over the weekend.
1) Apparently my IAT sensor melted when the B18 went... how does that happen?? - If the IAT was relocated from the plenum to the intercooler piping, It kinda tells me you had some seriously hot exchanged air coming in from a lower efficiency intercooler. If it was still in the plenum area could point to even worse lean condition. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen, and AFR readings won't show that. If IATs were about 200-250 degrees F* over ambient, it means that the intercooler just wasn't working or the intercooler's location was not optimal at all. (again, just going by what I'm seeing what I believe is the sensor probe being melted)
2) I pulled the oil pan off the b18 thinking i would see baffles in there... nope. I ask the shop where that one was...OEM pans don't really have baffling, which is why many install weld-in baffle trays that fit into the OEM pan (like from the MUGEN pans) keep the stock pickup and windage tray, and keep going. Otherwise, you can suffer from the "left turn of death" where the oil is flung and sticks to the smaller side of the pan during hard left turns and cause oil starvation. You can always get a Moroso, but.. that relocates the oil drain of your turbo to a crappy spot. But you could always drill/tap I supposed.
3) I'm not sure if i want to run a separate oil cooler or the sock one. Thoughts? Maybe monitor the temps and go from there? You can do either, or. The stock water/oil cooler, doesn't do much good vs. an Aftermarket Air-to-air or Laminova water/oil cooling system. It really depends upon the space and cost you're willing to put out. Laminova oil/water oil cooler systems are more expensive, but do well in a compact space or spacing where you're not running any standard radiator. However, a good air-to-air oil cooler can easily be mounted to any part of your chassis (preferably low to the ground below the height of the engine block's oil filter) that has a good source of cold air. You have a lot of oil cooler size options and can customize length of oil lines, and is generally less expensive than the Laminova systems. For street cars, not needed, but if you're going to the circuit for any length of time, it's highly recommended to use one.
4) Do you guys use the windage tray in the b16? I'm going to assume yes but its good to check. Yep, always. the engine oil passages wouldn't receive good oil without them. standard part of the build.
5) Any real reason to switch to the Gates Racing timing belt? I doubt with the issues that I will wear that out before the engine goes. That's an interesting question. Some people swear by them, others don't think it's necessary. Much of it is RPM based. If you plan to go higher than the stock valvetrain is allowed, I recommend going to an aftermarket belt. I didn't say Gates specifically, but they are the more affordable choice. I personally use more expensive belts that don't stretch during tensioning, but that's over $200 I'm willing to spend vs. $85-$120 I think the Gates belts are. But that's also because the Gates tend to stretch over time, and some invest in aftermarket belt guiders to keep it from flexing at higher rpms. I just use nicer belts.
Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
Originally Posted by TheShodan
If the IAT was relocated from the plenum to the intercooler piping, It kinda tells me you had some seriously hot exchanged air coming in from a lower efficiency intercooler. If it was still in the plenum area could point to even worse lean condition. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen, and AFR readings won't show that. If IATs were about 200-250 degrees F* over ambient, it means that the intercooler just wasn't working or the intercooler's location was not optimal at all. (again, just going by what I'm seeing what I believe is the sensor probe being melted)
I don't remember the intercooler temps being THAT high. I asked another buddy who said that when the engine blows, you can get a back fire or two up the runner that could have casued it to melt.
Originally Posted by TheShodan
OEM pans don't really have baffling, which is why many install weld-in baffle trays that fit into the OEM pan (like from the MUGEN pans) keep the stock pickup and windage tray, and keep going. Otherwise, you can suffer from the "left turn of death" where the oil is flung and sticks to the smaller side of the pan during hard left turns and cause oil starvation. You can always get a Moroso, but.. that relocates the oil drain of your turbo to a crappy spot. But you could always drill/tap I supposed.
Yeah I bought a weld in baffle kit for the oil pan that was suppose to be there.... somewhere (or not) there is a b16 oil pan with baffles welded into it. Its just not at my house.
And where do i find aftermarket belt guides?
I also looked to see what happened to that blown rod. No rod unless it is hiding in the engine somewhere....
Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
Originally Posted by Mjalaly
oh the adjustable tensioner, I don't think vibrant sells them anymore and I don't really see the need to use one either.
As I said. It's an option some use for the Gates Blue belts or OEM. I don't use them either. Those adjustable tensioners were never needed for the GReddy, HKS or TODA RACING Belts.
Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
stock belt stock tensioner with no issues here, like shodan says if you feel is necessary spend the extra coin on one. I would imagine most of the users on here dont go past OEM. heck im sure there plenty of people running cheaper then OEM belts
Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
Originally Posted by LightningTeg
Never needed one either. I like the gates belts though. They are quality
Yeah, I like the GReddy and TODA RACING LTD belts. I do rev over the stock limits, but don't feel the need for those tension devices. These belts never stretch. That's why they're so expensive. But I'm a JDM aftermarket ricer-*****, so, what can I tell ya..
Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
hummmm its a toss up on my car. I will be revving it to 9k but the car will only see like 3k miles per year.... hummmm.... the Greddy one isn't cheap at $130 but not horrible either.
Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
Originally Posted by Mjalaly
hummmm its a toss up on my car. I will be revving it to 9k but the car will only see like 3k miles per year.... hummmm.... the Greddy one isn't cheap at $130 but not horrible either.
See, this is exactly why I would go for the GReddy or TODA RACING. I've been on the same belts for years, because of the lower mileage I put on them. But I don't worry about the belt building slack or loss of tension while the car sits, which can happen on the OEM, and possibly the Gates "Blue". I just get in and drive when I'm ready. Just check/change oil before I start the car for the year
Mileage isn't that relevant, but I'm about in the same boat as you. Maybe 3-5K a year.. tops.
Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
Cool the shop found my baffled oil pan and a spare IAT sensor! Hopefully the timing belt gets here on Friday and I can button everything up. Is there any reason to run the lower timing cover? I dont use the upper so i would think the lower would be fine to not use as well.
Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
Originally Posted by Mjalaly
Cool the shop found my baffled oil pan and a spare IAT sensor! Hopefully the timing belt gets here on Friday and I can button everything up. Is there any reason to run the lower timing cover? I dont use the upper so i would think the lower would be fine to not use as well.
Yes, for 2 reasons:
1) The lower cover has the actual marks you can use a timing light to get actual physical timing
2) These covers protect vital components that are rotating at high rates of speed, especially with an "open" configuration as your chassis is in. I don't care how many people say that "nothing gets into this area to damage it". But in actuality, even a small piece of debris like syro-foam can cause catastrophic failure to the engine, or at the very least be an inconvenience. You have enough problems as it is with this third build. it's not like you're looking at any weight savings, and you can find timing covers from users on the marketplace, as BNIB they can be costly. But either way, please run all the proper timing covers.
Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
On the timing belt note, my friend learned the hard way on a 1200 mile road trip. We got about 2/3 of the way and pulling out of rest stop a small rock got down into timing belt area and got shot up into his valve cover shattering the valve cover which caused the belt to tear.
So yeah, it does happen. The covers are like $30 (ea., so you'd need upper and lower) new from Honda.
Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
Yeah I will need to get an upper rear cover. It looks like I have the others. The only issue is that if something comes in from the too I could be house anywhoo but that isn't as likely with the engine cover on.
also I have two ports with no hoses from them but it looks like everything is taken care of that needs coolant. The one on the tube and the port in the block right above it. Just loop them??
Apart from a turbo return gasket, that looks like it's the only things that need to be resolved before I can drop her in.... well bolt on the flywheel, clutch and tranny once it's off the engine stand.
this is the oil pan I was looking for. Took a bit to get all of the crap out.
Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
Originally Posted by cruizinmax
The one on the coolant crossover tube normally goes to the iac and throttle body. The one above it normally goes to the the pcv breather box.
so the one that goes to the pvc breather box is neither oil or coolant correct? So it can be plugged. The other can be plugged too then as long as all the parts needing coolant have supply.
Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
Originally Posted by cruizinmax
The one on the coolant crossover tube normally goes to the iac and throttle body. The one above it normally goes to the the pcv breather box.
^^ what he said. definetly dont loop them that would be bad. the one off the block is not super critical any cap should work fine. For the one on the water neck make sure you use a cap designed to handle both the heat and pressure of the coolant.
02-25-2017, 02:09 PM
Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
