Mjalaly

thats on 3rods. I will make sure the machine shop looks at everything and they will also do a sonic clean while it is there. then i will make sure that i put a pipe cleaner into each port as a double check. I know forsure that the oil pickup tube and pump were new so where else should i check for blockage??

Found the bearings i would need too. just .25 oversized acl ones.

I went through and measured the all of the main and rod journals on the crank in multiple spots and wrote them down. Now I will do the rods when they come in and if need be, have the shop match them to the crank.

All of the mains are between 54.740 and 54.730 most falling at 54.735 (10 measurements total)
All of the rods are between 44.725 and 44.736 with most falling at 44.73

Is a PTW of .005" too much for these motors (Aries pistons)??

Mjalaly

OK so the machine shop is said that cylinder is pretty much toast and they would need to sleeve it. However, i can get another block.

The new issue i am seeing is that i may need to sleeve all of them anyway even with another block. The pistons I have area all measuring 3.1830in which puts the piston on the very low slide of the tolerance. If the bores are at spec (honda clearly doesn't know how to covert mm to in the service manual 81.00mm is not 3.183in so this makes things even more difficult) then I could be hosed if the block is even slightly lager, assuming a ptw of .004", and the way it sounds is the shop will want to bore it regardless to make sure it is straight. In that case I would either need new sleeves or new pistons even though these only have 20 miles on them.

maybe I should start an engine build thread?

2kdrift

Just get an LS block, rebuild if necessary and call it a day........

so many people have recommended this throughout this thread, it will have more displacement then that 1.6 ever will

Mjalaly

I did get an LS block and it blew up!

Mjalaly

At what point is a sleeved block necessary? is it a psi thing? I assume pushing this turbo near 400hp will create a lot of heat need a lot of boost pressure to do so.

cruizinmax

iTrader: (2)

There are drag setups around that are making 5-600hp on stock sleeves. Having had the results you have had I think it would be cheaper in the long run to simply have a reputable company send you a built short or long block.

2kdrift

not boost related rather HP related, theres been huge numbers on stock sleeves I seem to recall 600+ on a particular build with CSS

I would say anything over 500 HP is about when you go sleeves, I personally wouldnt go above 450 on stock sleeves I just like to be safe. im at 407 with GE block guard no problems

https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced...s-ect-3112523/

LightningTeg

Past 450 its definitely a good idea.

Mjalaly

right now I am thinking i am going to just focus on building this b16 with a reliable 300whp (which means doing it myself). Then i can start working on the b18 and make that more of the power monster.

2kdrift

there you go, sounds like a solid plan

just wonder how much over 300hp you really need for your purpose, given your chasis is way lighter then the rest of us here

Mjalaly

Well to quote the great ricky bobby, I wanna go fast!

But I really don't understand the question. Do you think their should be a limit on a cars power to weight ratio for some reason?

Geis

No, you're not even close to one. Watch the video of 'the world's fastest lotus - tuned' on YouTube if you want a good example. Was 680whp 2200lbs lotus names the robin exige.

Frank, the owner, overhauled it after being hit by a Porsche and made it 400lbs lighter with a body/chassis overhaul and ditched the twin charged setup for a single turbo, same power. He has a handful of videos of it on YouTube, just search 'rs211'

Mjalaly

I know that car and my car would be close to his at 400whp. In perspective if my car had 400whp, an FI car's would still be 1/2 that of mine.

Mjalaly

it looks like the other b16 block has its bores at Ø81.2mm which would give me a ptw of .0145"... too much. Now I am back to spending $500+ on new pistons or sleeves to fix the block i have.

But wait... that would be .0145" on the diameter so the pt would actually be .00725" correct? Still too much but maybe i can just fix the one sleeve in my current block and still be ok. I need a dial bore gage to be sure though.

2kdrift

not always the case for a circuit track car lots of other factors mainly the WAY the power is delivered rather then some peak HP number

if i remember correctly you are trying to beat the current track record holder? whats his cars weight/HP compared to yours?

Mjalaly

I think a Stohr WF1 has it which has quite a few advantages over mine. stock they are 780lbs with a 200hp gsxr motor but his may be the SCCA legal one which has a min weight requirement of 1125lbs. he has aero on me though which means I need more power to overcome my lack of aero down the straightaway.

Without getting into a full blown car analysis, the car's power cant overcome suspension design yet to some extent. basically I have always been a fan of making a lot of power and then pulling it back to match the driver and or balance the car. 400whp would probably be way too much but somewhere around 350whp would work nicely (and probably too much at the beginning)

and yes I agree with your statement on power delivery, personally I like to analyze the area under the torque curve to really understand how the car will behave but most people can relate to hp so we talk in hp. this also happens to be the reason I am trying to not have a big turbo with huge jump in the torque curve late in the power band, additionally this is why my new transmission is much better than the old one, and the same reason why I think the b18 in this car would only work with the higher Rev limit like the b16.

2kdrift

Well there you go you answered your own question..... stock sleeves it is xD

Given your statement you have a pretty good idea of what your particular car needs for the given purpose. You analyzed it far better then I ever could 400 HP just sounded way to high from my experience at that power level in a much heavier car.

Not sure why your so into the b16 tho look at the tittle of this thread flat torque curve and using a b16....those two statements dont work well together. I still think a B18 would be much better ....more torque throughout the entire rev range and also better spool times from any turbo

Mjalaly

I just have more parts for the b16, that's all.

I also agree that the b18/vtec will be better but I will need a new block, pistons, rods, main bolts, bearings and a vtec conversion kit to get that one running vs a block and bearings for the b16. I want one as a backup so the plan is to build both. I may actually sleeve the b18 durring its build up to make it a 2liter. that will cost more than I want to spend right now.

hard to beat any track time if I have no tuning time on the track because of blown engines!

2kdrift

agreed you definitely need something stable, b18s and b16s have the same bore size so you should at least be able to use the pistons.

preaching to the choir on sleeving a b18. I would love to turn one of my gsr blocks into a 2.0 via sleeving and LS crank just dont feel like putting down that kind of money

Mjalaly

Those pistons have a different wrist pin location because of the stroke crank in the b16 that I have. so no worky on the b18.

2kdrift

Gotcha....well really sounds like your definetly headed in the right direction and I can understand costs being an issue it always is. I still think b18 is worth it in the long run and you dont need to necessarily sleeve it unless you want increased displacement. bigest factor for you I think is getting it built right the first time, may want to consider sending it out for building process.......ie CSS, laskey racing ETC

My piston and rod B18c1 comes out to 1819cc with 81.5mm pistons, I think LS crank adds about 40cc's or so depending on **bore size

Mjalaly

Is the PTW clearance
bore - piston diameter or (bore - piston diameter)/2??

2kdrift

believe its bore - piston
Ive never built a block I take it to a machine shop. but found this on another thread

Geis

<br /><br />He has peak torque just past 4k with a redline of 8k, in a car that weighs 1800lbs with shortened gears on an mr2 transmission. It's a canyon carver that goes through plenty of tight corners as well as sleepers. Your argument isn't even remotely valid.

2kdrift

keep telling yourself that, more torque earlier is always better, as far as peak HP yes a b18 does that better also