aasarsak

iTrader: (2)

OK, so another reason I don't like automotive service shops is that they don't give you the whole story. I paid a shop to run a leakdown and compression test. When I pickd up my car, all they said was that it is good.

It is still smoking (blue), so I decided to run the test myself. Here are pics of the plugs I pulled out in order from #1 - #4 cylinders.

It is clear that something is going on between #3 and #4, but I'm not sure what it is.

Here are my numbers for compression:

#1 - 225
#2 - 215
#3 - 225
#4 - 245

I'm thinking #3 and #4 may just have some carbon build up in the combustion chamber due to oil leaking through worn valve seals, but I'm not sure.

Compression all across the board rose quickly, and stayed solid even after cranking was complete.

These plugs are less than 3 months old. I just pulled the head, and cleaned all the carbon deposits off the valves, combustion chamber, and piston tops when I had the head resurfaced and pressure checked in december.

Boostfed B16 (stock internals)

aasarsak

iTrader: (2)

forgot the pics...

Boosted_B_Series

Its not your problem, but they look like iridium plugs. I would stay away from them and just use ngk copper 7s. The tips of the ir plugs can break off and cause catastrophic damage

Did you compression test the car with the engine warm or cold? I'd re do the test with the engine warm, we un hook the two dist plugs and put a battery charger on the battery while cranking. This yields more accurate results.

How many miles are on your turbo? What turbo?

Were does it smoke? ex In between shifts, constantly, idle, under boost ect..

aasarsak

iTrader: (2)

It constantly smokes. It gives off a good plume of smoke as soon as the throttle is opened.

these plugs are what my tuner recommended. They are NGK 7s.

Car was warm during the test. Dizzy plugs were undone. battery is an optima red top.

About 5,000 ish miles on turbo. Hard to say. I didn't note the mileage when I installed it. It's a master power turbo T3/T4 .50AR

It's for sure not the turbo because I unhooked all the charge piping and ran the car and it still smoked. I even looked at the inside of the compressor housing while it was running and there was nothing. I noticed I have a little shaft play in the turbo, but it isn't leaking any oil.

rudedawwg

i am curious to know what you find out because it sounds like we have a VERY similar problem. im hoping its my valve stem seals. i think they went bad because of the amount of boost i was running between 17-24 psi with no catch can setup, but thats only a guess

siblues

iTrader: (1)

I have be4en having the same exact issues down to the readings on my compression test.I have yet to solve the problem but I am leaning towards the valve seals.Did you have any signs of oil on the top of the pistons?

HiProfile

I'd be leaning towards the seals on #3 and #4, assuming the they're the last 2 plugs pictured. You have severe buildup on them, which is usually only caused by burning oil. If your rings are bad, you'd get very bad comp numbers. With all the deposites, its probably jacking it up like you said. I'd replace them all - if 2 or more have failed, the others will follow soon.

FYI Turbos can smoke from the exhaust side too. Unless you take it off completely, you can never be sure. Usually if you crack your downpipe flange, you'll see a tar-like mess if the turbo leaks. The oil will cook down, but not burn completely, when it leaks at the turbo.

aasarsak

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the feedback! You always have the right solution for me. I remember you were the first one to get it right about my BOV a while back too. I picked up a full set of seals from the stealership yesterday. Not too pricey. $25 including tax for all 16. Amazing how such a small, cheap part can cause such a big headache.

Yes, the ones with the build up on them were #s 3 and 4.

I'm just thrilled that it isn't my rings. I think if it were my rings, I would probably just end up buying a whole new long block LOL. cheaper and less work...

When you say that the turbo can leak from the exhaust side too, I see what you mean about the presence of oil, but lack of smoke. You said to crack open the DP flange. Which one? the 5 bolt at the turbo or the 3 bolt at the cat?

I have one more question now. Once I replace my seals, do you know any tricks to get that buildup off the valves, combustion chamber, and piston tops? I have pulled the head before and cleaned all that crap out, but I really don't want to pull the head when I replace the valves I plan on doing it with the motor in the car and the head on the block...

aasarsak

iTrader: (2)

Yes, #s 3 and 4 looked like they had a nice coat of crap on them when I pulled tha plugs. You can see it in the pics above.

urbansi

same prob on my car last year, changes the valve seals and the car ran perfect(until i cracked a sleeve lol)

aasarsak

iTrader: (2)

replaced the seals today. Still smoking. haven't ran it very long yet. Could it be residual oil still burning off from the combustion chamber?

aasarsak

iTrader: (2)

Others have suggested either oil control rings, PCV valve, or turbo seal.

blaze the chemi

I'd say if you have an exhaust manifold, bolt it up and test the motor without the turbo installed and check if it smokes then. If not then replace the turbo seals.

carnot

I think this is a good suggestion. Simplify the situation and make sure it really isn't the turbo. So the car smokes all the time? Does it smoke more under acceleration and high load or more at idle/high vacuum? If the oil control rings are bad the car will smoke under high loads. If the valve stem seals and/or valve guides are worn the engine will smoke under high vacuum.

sleepinonacreeper

this is how i check
spark plugs- excessive build up on plugs means oil is entering cylinder
pcv- excessive black tar in intake manifold and intake ports. oil in pcv hose.
valve seals or guides- wet and shiney valve stems with some buildup or tar, viewed through ports on head
oil rings- when no oil elsewhere but oil is entering cylinder. typically wont show up on compression or leak down unless all your rings are screwed.
turbo seal turbine side- clean plugs, build up on o2 sensor screen, tar on exhaust wheel and in down pipe.
turbo seal compressor side- oil in intercooler pipe.

aasarsak

iTrader: (2)

This sounds like a very systematic apporach. I will try this weekend and come back with results.

As a little side note, I looked this morning after running my car for a few that there is oil vapor condensation on my muffler tip. I can see little droplets of oil in the tip of my exhaust. Sounding more like a turbo seal?

Wierd thing too though is that after I replaced the valve stem seals, the car seems like it is detonating because it sometimes feels like one of the pistons is missing when I accelerate sometimes. Could this be residual oil burning off from the previous oi build up in the combustion chamber?

Chipped B6

I think it can be your piston ring lands as I had the same issues and I would really get it fixed because my GSR was smoking blue too and eventually it blew up and cracked a sleeve.

aasarsak

iTrader: (2)

well, it is now day 2 after having changed my valve seals, and I can barely see smoke coming out any more. I'm going to have somebody follow closely behind me and look/smell, but I can't tell at all any more. It used to throw out a pretty good size cloud in the morning or after being stopped for awhile. The hesitation and misfiring seems to be clearing up as well.

I picked up a can of sea foam. I will run some of that through my system, and then change my oil. I have been told that sea foam will either help your motor run better, or make it more obvious if you have a problem due to the fact that it cleans off carbon deposits which may have been making it seem as though the engine is healthy, but once the carbon is removed, then all the bad seals start to leak and show the true signs of wear.

I will post results as soon as available.

If I still have smoke afterward, I will follow the advise given, and post results.

Again, thanks to all for input.

aasarsak

iTrader: (2)

OK, this is becoming wierd.

Had somebody follow me, and the car only smokes after I decelerate and then punch the gas. No smoke under hard acceleration.

There was oil all inside my PCV when I replaced it.

Car is throwing a cloud of smoke once again at startup.

Vacuum test shows vacuum reading fluctuating vibration between 20 - 18 mmHg (occationallly, not constant)

And it smokes if I blip the throttle at idle.

Here is a shot of one of my valve guides.

If I remember correctly, I believe that 3 intake and 1 or 2 exhaust guides had this kind of scratch/gouge in them.

carnot

The symptoms are similar to having worn valve stem seals but since you just replaced those I would think it could be worn exhaust guides. I am curious to know what others think. I had the same problem with my prelude; tried to replace the seals first but ultimately had to get new exhaust guides pressed in.

aasarsak

iTrader: (2)

Can you see that gouge in the pic? In my mind, I can see it perfectly because I remember looking at it going WTF?! But I'm just wondering if the picture is clear enough...

carnot

I can definitely see the notch you are talking about. Whether it is normal or not I am unsure. I will take a look at a spare head I have laying around and let you know if I see anything similar.

1junkycivic

Any leak down test results.

aasarsak

iTrader: (2)

The first post here shows my initial results prior to swapping the seals and giving her some sea foam. All cylinders cranked right up. Nothing leaked. Compression was good all the way across. A little high on number 4 due to carbon build up.

I'm going to do another test tommorrow to see if the sea foam helped get any of the buildup out of the combustion chamber.

Hybrid96EK

You sure you got the seals on and seated correctly? Didn't rip them or anything like that on install?

To the guy who says ring lands, no way. The compression numbers are too high. That and you reported that the compression gauge goes up very quickly. Cracked or broken lands will result in OBVIOUSLY low compression test. Seen it many times.