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Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

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Old 05-08-2018, 10:42 AM
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Default Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

Hi! The title is what it is, because more than a year ago i decided to sink some money into my daily. I would always see super sweet builds and think I could never do that. Anyways, ***** getting out of hand. No longer small time if you ask me.

If you have like 5 days to read, here is the journey so far. https://honda-tech.com/forums/appear...hread-3270727/

What i am here for is FI advice I suppose. I haven't yet turbo'd a car, and will be turboing this one soon.
Currently and recently, yes, I have researched. I have a lot more that I can and will be doing. Just wouldn't mind a nudge in the right direction to help me get to the end. When I try anything big and new, i over think it all and stress. Once this is under my belt i'll have a much better understanding. To help set things straight, I can rebuild an engine on my own properly, down to the .0001. I do own a FSM for my car. I can auto to manual swap a car and am mindful enough to make cruise and neutral safety work.. Not new, just haven't paid any attention to FI what so ever.

HERE IS WHAT I'VE GOT IN MIND!
  • 400HP power goal (never have driven a honda with more than 200)
  • I want to use 92 octane fuel.
  • Want to take it out on the weekends, or daily it lightly if I want.
  • Will be streeting it, some highway pulls, and maybe ill take it to the track a time or two. Not so focused on that.
  • GSR block/crank, GSR ported head, GSR trans.
  • Budget of around 8k.
This is my hard idea right now..
  • Benson sleeve the block,, bore size? Not sure. (He's only like a 3 hour drive from me)
  • Skunk 2 ultra street IM, (I want some bling too, not right for the build?,,400HP idea..)
  • TB Size, 70? 72?
  • Manley Turbo tuff rods
  • Wiseco 10:1 shelf stock
  • ACL Race main/rod/thrust
  • BWR Ram horn Sounds nice, but not sure if 38 or 44mm waste gate.
  • Tial 38 or 44mm waste gate..
  • Tial godzilla 50MM BOV
  • ID 1000 injectors
  • HondataS300V2
  • Unsure on cams, ITR/CTR/aftermarket? ]
  • Hondata? 4 bar map
  • Speedfactory battery location Catch Can
All other things not mentioned, i am unsure of. Like intercooler, fuel system, dump tube........oh yeah and turbo!!

I understand sleeving is probably excessive, but i have heard enough times "You'll always want more power".. ill trust the masses and build for that.

Anyways, i'm going to get to reading. Firstly trying to select turbo. Sorry if this was a bit long. If you have any useful info for me, feel free to drop a comment. Thanks Honda Heads.

OPEN TO ANY AND ALL ADVICE! I do not yet have a great understanding of everything obviously.
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Old 05-08-2018, 10:56 AM
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Default re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

Originally Posted by Loyalhondahaver
Hi! The title is what it is, because more than a year ago i decided to sink some money into my daily. I would always see super sweet builds and think I could never do that. Anyways, ***** getting out of hand. No longer small time if you ask me.

If you have like 5 days to read, here is the journey so far. https://honda-tech.com/forums/appear...hread-3270727/

What i am here for is FI advice I suppose. I haven't yet turbo'd a car, and will be turboing this one soon.
Currently and recently, yes, I have researched. I have a lot more that I can and will be doing. Just wouldn't mind a nudge in the right direction to help me get to the end. When I try anything big and new, i over think it all and stress. Once this is under my belt i'll have a much better understanding. To help set things straight, I can rebuild an engine on my own properly, down to the .0001. I do own a FSM for my car. I can auto to manual swap a car and am mindful enough to make cruise and neutral safety work.. Not new, just haven't paid any attention to FI what so ever.

HERE IS WHAT I'VE GOT IN MIND!
  • 400HP power goal (never have driven a honda with more than 200)
  • I want to use 92 octane fuel.
  • Want to take it out on the weekends, or daily it lightly if I want.
  • Will be streeting it, some highway pulls, and maybe ill take it to the track a time or two. Not so focused on that.
  • GSR block/crank, GSR ported head, GSR trans.
  • Budget of around 8k.
This is my hard idea right now..
  • Benson sleeve the block,, bore size? Not sure. (He's only like a 3 hour drive from me) (Dont need to for 400whp. You could if you WANTED but its not necessary at all)
  • Skunk 2 ultra street IM, (I want some bling too, not right for the build?,,400HP idea..) (Definitely not needed for 400whp. A "type r" style manifold would work fine.)
  • TB Size, 70? 72? (Stock)
  • Manley Turbo tuff rods (Good)
  • Wiseco 10:1 shelf stock (good)
  • ACL Race main/rod/thrust (fine)
  • BWR Ram horn Sounds nice, but not sure if 38 or 44mm waste gate. (Why a ramhorn? I ask because I've had cast logs, tubular logs, a ramhorn, and now a "miniram" and the miniram by far has been the best for both torque and power production. Not to mention takes up way less space)
  • Tial 38 or 44mm waste gate. (good)
  • Tial godzilla 50MM BOV (cool)
  • ID 1000 injectors (perfect)
  • HondataS300V2 (good)
  • Unsure on cams, ITR/CTR/aftermarket? (ITRs are still great cams overall)
  • Hondata? 4 bar map (works)
  • Speedfactory battery location Catch Can (Whatever works. Something is definitely better then nothing. A lot of ways to skin the cat here)
All other things not mentioned, i am unsure of. Like intercooler, fuel system, dump tube........oh yeah and turbo!!

Since you have the budget, get a precision/Garrett Core. you can keep it small and efficient.

I understand sleeving is probably excessive, but i have heard enough times "You'll always want more power".. ill trust the masses and build for that.

This is true and about 450-500 is a good threshold to go with sleeves.

Anyways, i'm going to get to reading. Firstly trying to select turbo. Sorry if this was a bit long. If you have any useful info for me, feel free to drop a comment. Thanks Honda Heads.

If 400 is truly the max you want, there is a plethora of options. The bigger you go the more you sacrifice drive ability. The GT30R family does really nice here, maybe even a big GT28XX. But you'll be limited yourself for more obviously. I think others can chime in better on this.

OPEN TO ANY AND ALL ADVICE! I do not yet have a great understanding of everything obviously.
Dont forget about Tires and a Clutch, and most important, the tune/r
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Old 05-08-2018, 11:02 AM
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Default re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

BWR is no longer in business; but if a ramhorn is your manifold of choice I would use a 44mm gate provision. As lightningteg mentioned; I too would lean towards the mini ram as an overall better option

Tial makes a "Q 50mm" BOV; Turbonetics makes a Godzilla BOV; which is not 50mm

400whp, a GT30, something in the 54-58mm range will all work well. That's an incredibly broad area.
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Old 05-08-2018, 11:25 AM
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Default re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

GSR cams are fine. ITR are better.

70mm throttle body would be great. PerformerX or Skunk2 Pro would be a great intake manifold, or any ITR style manifold. Ultra Street would be a bit overkill and aim for more upper end power rather than mid range.

Sleeves are not necessary but would be added insurance.

Miniram good idea for better use of bay space while providing tones of exhaust flow.

Something like the GT3071 would be a good turbo to start looking at.

Go-Autoworks makes a really nice mini-ram style manifold, one of their designs is also AC compatible. SpeedFactory also makes one but I don't think it can be used with an AC system.

I'm personally a big fan of ACT clutch. I've also had success with Competition Clutch.

My number one piece of advice would be not to buy only a turbo, but buy the whole turbo kit from one shop. Don't try to piece together your first project, find a good retailer that offers a complete kit, and go with that so it all bolts up and works together.
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Old 05-08-2018, 11:41 AM
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Default re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

You guys are awesome!!


In response to LighteningTeg

Going to touch on what youve mentioned..

1. Sleeving.. I figure it might be cheaper to spend more now instead of do it all again if i want more later.

2. If the ultra street wont hurt me (I understand its possible), i'd like to go with it because its pretty as hell. Also, room to grow..

3. Ram Horn because after consulting with a friend/tuner shop owner that's where I got. I am totally fresh to FI. I am cheating a little, I know. All of the info is at my finger tips, new things overwhelm me.
I will look into the other styles of manifolds. Thank you.

4. I think I know of a set of ITR cams for sale, around 400. Ill have to check back. My daily is a beater 00 ej8 sedan, with a 00 jdm ITR and matching trans..thought of robbing cams but that a sin.

5. 400 HP max and turbo selection.. If I can select a turbo that is efficient around 375-425 or so, I think that would be a good idea for me. I am cool upgraded the turbo down the road when I want more. So turbo selection around 400 will do. Ill check in on what youve mentioned.

6.Tires, clutch, mounts, all those things will be easy in my head to sort out haha, For a tune I believe I'll be taking it to KiezenSpeed* In the tricities area, Washington.

Onto to the turbo selection aspect.
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Old 05-09-2018, 03:14 AM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

If you're going to sleeve might as well go bigger on the bore too and gain some torque out of it.
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Old 05-09-2018, 05:40 AM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

Originally Posted by LightningTeg
If you're going to sleeve might as well go bigger on the bore too and gain some torque out of it.
With the additional stroke to get a true 2.0 litres vs. 1.9 with just bore only. But that's if he decides to sleeve. I sleeved and I'm barely in the range of what most people would believe sleeving would be necessary. However, after many years of being still a 1.8, it didn't take much for me to go to 2.1 litres since I was already sleeved. It really depends upon whether or not you truly plan to grow larger later, or keep the project that long. Many get bored after a few years, and don't keep the project long enough to warrant sleeving.
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Old 05-09-2018, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

Ultra Street will certainly not hurt performance, go for it.

Your friend/shop owner probably likes ramhorns because they're a tubular design, the shape itself doesn't matter as much.
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Old 05-09-2018, 06:46 AM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

Originally Posted by Chance EG
Ultra Street will certainly not hurt performance, go for it.

Your friend/shop owner probably likes ramhorns because they're a tubular design, the shape itself doesn't matter as much.
The tubular design in conjunction with the larger tubular primaries is exactly why for that initial goal, it's not necessary. When compared to the Skunk2 Pro manifold, it was a 15whp difference. Not enough to write home about, that a click of a boost controller can't solve. It's not even more efficiently distributed, and is more of a hassle to install than just a standard Performer X or Skunk2. Sure it looks pretty, but it's not to be rationalized for serious improvements when there are other areas that can do that job without all the additional work. (Better quality intercooler, more efficient spark, good turbocharger choice, etc).
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Old 05-09-2018, 11:46 AM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

^Agreed, OP was just saying that unless it would hurt performance he would want the manifold for aesthetic reasons, so might as well.

OP if you have enough patience and time, get a Performer X and polish the aluminum on it. Looks freaking amazing, but takes some elbow grease.
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Old 05-12-2018, 10:54 AM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

Thanks a lot guys. I expected atleast one person to remind me of the 100’s of threads like this.

and moderator, thanks for the better thread title.


So.. I’ve let things settle in my head. Head was just spinning before. Now I am taking it slow. Processing everything I can, as best as I can, before going further. I am studying each aspect of the system one by one.

I apologies if I offend in anyway, saying one thing and doing another from start to finish. I liked one guys suggestion of buying a kit and thought about it. I may, but I think I’ll just do my best and piece one together.

Someone just mentioned larger bore since sleeving. Sounds like something I better look into!

Stoker.. I like the idea, seems it’ll put me over budget. I think for now I’ll keep things in stockish configuration. Maybe on the next build.

So I basically started fresh after my last post. Right now I am studying a/r basics. Something I’ve only heard and dismissed quickly in the past. Didn’t need to know until now.

I wouldnt mind a word or two on suggested bore sizes If you’re bored. Either will I’ll get to reading on that too. I’m not sure what the max more for a benson sleeve is. I’ll have that in mind with the idea of rebuilding in the future.

All of your time is not with it appreciation.
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Old 05-12-2018, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

I’m in India right now, but found 98+ ITR cams for sale for 350. In my hometown, USA. Paypal’d A friend the money, should clear soon and friend will meet seller. Friend doesn’t know how to inspect. Taking a risk. So there’s that! Should be fine. If not. I’ll always say it should have been.

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Old 05-12-2018, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

Originally Posted by Loyalhondahaver
I’m in India right now, but found 98+ ITR cams for sale for 350. In my hometown, USA. Paypal’d A friend the money, should clear soon and friend will meet seller. Friend doesn’t know how to inspect. Taking a risk. So there’s that! Should be fine. If not. I’ll always say it should have been.

Just send him a pic of what scorned/grinded cams look like compared to a healthy set of used ones. He could send you a couple pics as well if time allows, still a risk but could help.

I'd advise leaving the bore at 83mm max or 82mm, just so you have some extra wall available if the worst were to happen and you needed to bore out further for new pistons/rings.

Don't do a stroker kit, much more hassle, money, and problems than it's worth.
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Old 05-13-2018, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

Thanks. I did see a picture of the cams before buying, and they seemed to be in good shape. I was thinking on 82 for those reasons. I’m not yet sure what the max recommended bore (or availability of pistons) for the benson sleeves are.

Just ordered an ATI damper, put an offer on the Manley rods on eBay (let’s see if I can save a buck), and ordered wiseco 10:1 pistons.

Thinking about ARP main studs. I’m finding it’ll need line bored. Then I’m hearing people preferring not to line bore, due to raising the center line of the main journals closer to the deck, causing misalignment of oil pump and such. (Actually I read on that topic long ago and it comes to mind when thinking about main studs.)

Have any of you line bored? Any issue? Seems like in esscense it would raise the pistons closer to the head, raising compression. No?

I didnt mention in the first post, I also have new ARP head studs for it. Of course!


Reminder: my idea is to over build for if I want more later, and for extra peace of mind now. I don’t want to tear it down completely in a year and spend all this money again. Really the idea is to build a bad *** Honda, then quit spending all my money on parts haha.
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Old 05-13-2018, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

I'm align honed for the LS crank.. Been that way for 10 years. No issues.
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:24 PM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

bump for fellow Washingtonian /pnw if u in Oregon I'm in Seattle wa

id keep it simple for your first one if I was you. something along lines:

either head
hondata 4bar map
itr cams *they only go for 250-300 on average a 400 is kind of a lot fyi make sure u know what you're looking at also
edelbrock performer x (only bc I got one mself) but ultra street works
1000cc injectors

css or sleeves your choice
82mm just so u have room to grow as max normal sleeved bores are 84-85 really
whatever forge piston n cr u want
whatever forge rod u want
oem bearing kit > acl/king my preference
oem everything else like wb tp oil pump deals

I would HIGHLY suggest going goautoworks kit but if you know how to piece together a turbo kit you can defsave **** ton of money

I prefer supporting a real manifold brand like speedfactory goautoworks rcautoworks or other real custom strong mayerial company over bwr as I see bwr as a blox /junk2 company

hondata s300 v2+
walbro 255
whatever clutch kit u choose just make sure it's a real brand not no xtd
44mm wg is more popular than 38 and you'll realize that when u pick b series manifold. ask greg at goauyoworks he can explain more on why

get yourself a catch can setup. i myself got a speed factory 4 bung myself
I def would pick a miniramover anything else as it is best performance for street runs now full ram / topmount is more drag than street but full ram works too on street

heres my setup to give you an idea

head:
b16
edelbrock performer x im
hondata thermal im gasket
hondata 4bar
bosch750 (I need 1000 tho but getting 750 for 100 can't complain)
itr cams
walbro 255
hondata s300 v1

block:
ls b18b1 stock sleeve
cp pistons 10:1
Manley h rods
comp clutch sprung stg 4
stock flywheel resurfaced
king bearings only bc I was within spec
oem everything seals bla bla


turbo: (i pieced balling on budget)
k27 borg warner
speed factory welded piping
replica greddy bov
genuine 38mm tial wg
spa cast mount (got it for 100 can't complain)



not tuned just assembled
I'mballing on budget side so I saved a **** ton of money and I collected all these parts over time finding great deals i am not in a rush
I have speed factory local to me so they'll betuning this
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:59 AM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

Alright! I took your suggestion and bought a kit from go-Autoworks. Greg walked me through it. I bought the rx600 kit, with the garret gtw-5857 BB turbo. Only upgraded I made to the kit was the turbo, a three inch down pipe, and ceramic coating for the turbine housing. He says, the kit should tke 3-6 weeks to ship. Should be perfect.. I imagine the block may be with benson for a month. That’ll give me time to get together everything else.


the kit ran me about 3.4k. I imagine I’ll be spending another 3.5-4K to get this whole thing finished. Sleeving, pistons, rods, intake mani, LSD, fuel system..

We are on the up and up!
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Old 05-18-2018, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

Originally Posted by Loyalhondahaver
Alright! I took your suggestion and bought a kit from go-Autoworks. Greg walked me through it. I bought the rx600 kit, with the garret gtw-5857 BB turbo. Only upgraded I made to the kit was the turbo, a three inch down pipe, and ceramic coating for the turbine housing. He says, the kit should tke 3-6 weeks to ship. Should be perfect.. I imagine the block may be with benson for a month. That’ll give me time to get together everything else.


the kit ran me about 3.4k. I imagine I’ll be spending another 3.5-4K to get this whole thing finished. Sleeving, pistons, rods, intake mani, LSD, fuel system..

We are on the up and up!
I am guessing the price of the kit included the turbo right?
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Old 05-18-2018, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

Originally Posted by Loyalhondahaver
Alright! I took your suggestion and bought a kit from go-Autoworks. Greg walked me through it. I bought the rx600 kit, with the garret gtw-5857 BB turbo. Only upgraded I made to the kit was the turbo, a three inch down pipe, and ceramic coating for the turbine housing.



Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC
I am guessing the price of the kit included the turbo right?
that it does
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Old 05-18-2018, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

I can't wait to see how this turns out! Is that kit a/c compatible?
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:35 AM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

It is not A/C compatible. I don’t mind so much though, as it won’t be a daily. Before I had these turbo plans.. I replaced all the a/c stuff in front 🙄.

It did include the cost of the turbo, there’s a good ohh 8 options that don’t cost extra, they are by turbonetics, by tweaked to go-autoworks liking, I think. The tnetics turbos from them still come with tnetics one year warranty, even if ceramic coated by go-auto.

The gtw-5857 was an additional 250. Coating was additional 125.

Sooo.. I need to figure out/order— mounts, full exhaust, injectors, intake manifold, LSD and install (will leave that to a friend), what I’ll put in the head other than cam, have the head recon’d, order a gasket kit, allll that stuff. I’m debating the line bore. I’m not sure benson would do that for me, so taking to other machine shop will put me out another 2-4 weeks. Right now it seems I may have one month of summer smashin turb’d DOHC vtak on them VWs.

Last edited by Loyalhondahaver; 05-19-2018 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 05-19-2018, 12:23 PM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

That's a pretty nice kit, but it's too hot and I'm too old to not have A/C, lol. Your car should be pretty fun when you're done.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: Loyalhondahaver's B-series GS-R progress build: FI Edition

If you care to tag along, check out my main thread for this car. This is the link.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/appear...hread-3270727/

this thread has served it purpose for me. My other thread, is in the appearance-build thread—that’s where it started, I didn’t know this would happen. I’ll finish it off there.

Thanks for following.
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