Introducing Flat-Rate B18 Twin Turbo (56k not today)
04-11-2004, 08:00 PM
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Introducing Flat-Rate B18 Twin Turbo (56k not today)
After the longest week I have ever worked on one single project in my entire life. First off I want to say thanks to everyone before I start off..
Thanks to:
Lionel @ CNR for lots of welding
Beau - Always helping me out, DP's look great man
Cadracer (ted) - for helping me when I get so frustrated and want to give up.. HMT is here because of you!
Travis - Thanks for all the little odds and ends and helping me put the engine in!
Dustin - Ahh, saved my *** on a few little parts, pistons, oil return flanges and some labor. oh and thanks for the coke
Sam @ BMC Racing, for all the flanges, they were all pretty good. I'm very impressed you could make those flanges with just pictures I sent you. The DP flanges were a little off, but nothing a die grinder couldnt handle
Tyrus @ Johnnyracecar, The intercooler is sexy man.. fitment was a huge pain in the ***, but its ******* in there, and if I wreck the car I think I'm going to die, I had to hack everything!
PNK team Larry, Ron, Gil (the big crew) for giving me a hand on little things, and letting me trash your ******* bays on my 2 days off haha.
And if I forgot someone, sorry I love you too..
The Twin Turbo Ls/Vtec
(Screen names are from HMT, sorry if its confusing)
Starting off Sunday night 4/4. I drove down to Tacoma to pic this LS shortblock up from Colten (45psi) It was Onyx's old block from his integra with very high milage.
The block was just caked with built up oil, Heavy build up
The guy had overfilled the oil and was raping it and it ended up bending a rod.
Started to tear down the engine on Monday, after inspecting the main bearings I was a little freaked out, they had some really odd wear patterns like nothing I've seen before. Probably due to the bent rod. I had suspension that the crank was bent. Using a Dial indicator, I checked it and it was fine. Dont wanna be spinning 8500rpms with a bent crank
Normally if this was an engine I cared about, I would put a nice set of factory bearings in this thing, but I didnt have time for special order bearings, and the price of factory bearings are spendy.
So we went with a nice ******* cheap set of Napa Main bearings for 22 bucks, hah. Standard bearings in a honda? like ya.. no such thing :
As you can see I steamed the living **** out of the block with acid and degreaser. It came out really clean.
Sunday Night I also picked up my Old B18b rods/pistons from my old ls/vtec turbo. Dustin had them sitting in his garage forever. Thanks dude! bearings were in perfect shape.
I also went with a nice set of cheapy rings through worldpac. I think they were like 28 bucks?
Note: the cheapy piston installer, some people think these things are ******* shitty. I have never used such an easy ring compressor, no broken rings and goes in perfect everytime.
I gave the block a quick hone job to give it a nice cross hatch. (hence the word quick) flat rate style..
Flat rate style ment checking bearings tolerneces on 1 cylinder and that was it, haha. I checked 1 main and 1 rod, they looked good. So ::crosses fingers:: shouldnt knock, well not right now anyways.
Monday the entire shortblock was completed, so tuesday I chopped the intake manifold in half and had my buddy weld on a big tube (large plenum) I spent the day smoothing out the runners.
Bling bling! came out real nice inside, brang it back to him later on that day to get the other half welded back on.
Tuesday Night I ripped the Trailerpark B16a head off, and I mean fast.. I had the head off in less than 15 mins and the car pushed out. I'm not trying to brag, but god damn... I couldnt beleive it, haha... The guys in the shop were like WTF? you just drove it in, now your pushing it out?
Wed, I started working on the head, it really needed some attention. I got this head (and b16a longblock) for doing a motor swap. The exhaust valves were beat very hard. (this was the same engine I did the homemade throttle bodies on)
I went ahead and lapped the **** out of the valves and cleaned all the carbon off them. Normally I'd just spit the money out for a full valve grind, but I didnt have time nor the money.
In order to make a Vtec head fit on a non-vtec block you have to bore out the dowl pin holes, Normally I'd just take this to my buddies house and use his drill press or buy those nifty fittings from GE, again.. that money time factor comes into play.. I borrowed a huge *** drill bit that was designed for a press that I had to grind down to even fit in my drill, so lets just say... it wasnt so precise, hahah
Again another mod for the vtec head, you have to block this oil passage, just used a steel 1/8th NPT plug
Since the head was off, and all the valves were out I wanted to spend some time on the head. Clean up some of the casting flaws and do some minor porting. Spent a few hours on it.
Finally the head is done
Late Wed Night I started to put this thing together, I was running into all kinds of missing parts, god damn onyx stripped this block ******* clean.
I decidied as much as I like to stare at my ITR cams on my computer desk, I wanted to see how they worked in something. Also decided to paint the block flat black, nobody liked this idea, but I dont care.. It hides oil leaks!
End of Wed Night I had both manifolds all mocked up, using stainless steel weld el's from mcmaster.com, run about 4.20 a piece and used about 8 of them. Even though I didnt do the welding on it, (just tacking everything in place) I thought I did a pretty good for mocking up my first manifold like this
Thursday Morning I got the manifold back all welded up and ready to go, I started working on the oil feed. I was going to use some nice stainless lines with -an fittings. But it wouldnt be HMT without the Barb'd oil fittings, heh. I didnt have the right banjo fitting So I robbed one off a 3000gt slave cylinder, lucky find.
Oil return was was pretty basic, I planned on merging both oil returns into one. This fitting got all fucked up after the project was done I didnt do a good job welding the backside
leaks like a mother ******, Gotta fix that.
Finally we got a local supplier with Mandrel bends (INSTOCK!) beau hooked me up, with 3 2.5's and 1 3.0 for dirt cheap.
I've been using the same Upper IC charge pipe on the last 5 setups in my car, and it looked like the most fucked up mangled piece of **** known to man kind, (shown behind) So it was time for a new upper IC pipe, found a perfect hole saw for putting my Tial BOV flange in.
Thursday I waited for beau to get off work to help me with the downpipes, so I decidied to work on my built ls/vtec and start doing a little bit of work on it too, just to kill some time.
Got my head back from the machine shop with all 1mm oversize stainless steel valves, titanium retainers, duel valve springs, looked pretty! I went ahead and torqued the head on.
Beau Working on the downpipes, I really wanted to go for something simple, like a 2 1/2 from the top turbo dump right into the bottom 2.5 dp.
We used my built ls/vtec to mock the setup on, while I was still doing some final stuff to the FL Ls/Vtec.
Of course Beau had to get a little wild on the Downpipes, I walked over, and was like... whoa! Nice job dude, Both pipes come down under the pan and merge into a 3in collector and doglag's left.
Copyright Downpipe **** Shot... by Garrison Gerth
Thursday night was a ******* late one.. I pulled the Trailerpark B16a out of my car and pitched that ****** in the side of the shop. I glanced at the cylinder walls and just shook my head. The block is so fucked up.
Late Late Thursday night I'm freaking out because some guy took the cherry picker home and I couldnt get the freaking engine off the engine stand by myself, buddy travis to the rescue. Thanks man!
Putting engines in from the bottom is so nice with a lift
You can see the custom X member Beau made for me awhile back. All done in stainlless steel, & adjustable (ya thats a alternator bracket as a my radiator bracket) hah
Friday Night we had the dP's all welded up, and I was doing test fits with the intercooler. I forgot my camara this day and was in such a hurry to get this thing done. I had alot of friends give me a hand to finish her up.
Charge pipes were a hoe, the duel inlet on the intercooler was a very bad idea, and wish it was setup like a normal intercooler.
Oil feed was setup with a tuner toyz fitting off the back of the block, to another T, 1 for the head, and 1 for the turbo. Then the Turbo feed got split off again. All using 1/8th NPT fittings. Shitty *** NAPA sold out of my favorite black hose I normally use and hand to use some homo *** red high pressure hose.
Friday everything was in and running, it ran like complete **** at first, Oil was coming out of the turbos really bad, coolant was blowing out of the back of the block, and I had 2 foot flames coming out of the downpipe. OMG, hahah
Anyways the o-ring seal on the back of the block (tube that runs to the water pump blew out) So after replacing that twice.. it was fixed. And the the oil was because the dipstick wasnt in, !~!!!!! The PR3 map I had a real heavy enrichment at cold startup so I dont think it liked it.
Completed.... Saturday Morning, I wanted to get this thing done for a local honda-tech meet, and for some local street racers saying that I was talking bullshit about a TT setup. You should of seen the peoples faces at the honda-tech meet. One guy asked "Who brand manifold is that" I told him it was a Drag Gen 7 beta 2b. rofl
Yes, it fits, Yes it runs.. The questions Is it fast? I'd say so. Honestly, I've never had a turbo setup sound like this. It sounds really werid, almost like my Buddies Rotary. I've drove lots of turbo hondas open DP, but nothing like this. Boost comes in incredibly fast, way faster than I thought. Spools 5psi around 2800rpms, and holds 7psi all the way to 8300. When the ITR cams kick in, the thing gets pretty wild. I'm running my old ls/vtec turbo spark & fuel map. Seems to be running pretty good but needs lots of minor adjustments. Coolant leaks probably that (coughusedheadgasketcough) and the oil leaks from the return pretty bad. Thats what you get when you flatrate ****.
Another shot.. yes its very cluttered right now, plus I had a little incident with coolant blowing everywhere, onyx left the coolant drain plug loose and I didnt check it :-\
I dont care whatcha guys say.. I like flat black... btw, can you see the welds on the intake mani? Lionel ground them down flush and you cant even see them. Looks great! Only 1 flaw in this manifold design and the end cap wasnt rounded (bulged out) instead it was just capped off.
Overall it was a fun setup, would I do it again? No.. lots of people kept saying "what a waste of money" well, this entire setup didnt cost me much at all, I get lots of little perks from HMT so it lets me do this kinds of stuff on a cheap level. This was just an experiment, just to have fun and see how well it performed, I'm not here saying twin turbo setups are the ****, in fact.. they are a pain in the ***, and I cant wait to get my single setup on.
What am I expecting of this? Well I'm sure I'll dyno it, and see if I can get 300whp out of it, maybe rape it around a bit more, save some money and finish up my built ls/vtec and put on my 62-1. As far as how fast is it? it's not nearly as fast as my Crvtec Turbo, but it does have that nice b-series pull
Enjoy the pics guys (I know its long) and fire away with the questions
Jeff Frank
Thanks to:
Lionel @ CNR for lots of welding
Beau - Always helping me out, DP's look great man
Cadracer (ted) - for helping me when I get so frustrated and want to give up.. HMT is here because of you!
Travis - Thanks for all the little odds and ends and helping me put the engine in!
Dustin - Ahh, saved my *** on a few little parts, pistons, oil return flanges and some labor. oh and thanks for the coke
Sam @ BMC Racing, for all the flanges, they were all pretty good. I'm very impressed you could make those flanges with just pictures I sent you. The DP flanges were a little off, but nothing a die grinder couldnt handle
Tyrus @ Johnnyracecar, The intercooler is sexy man.. fitment was a huge pain in the ***, but its ******* in there, and if I wreck the car I think I'm going to die, I had to hack everything!
PNK team Larry, Ron, Gil (the big crew) for giving me a hand on little things, and letting me trash your ******* bays on my 2 days off haha.
And if I forgot someone, sorry I love you too..
The Twin Turbo Ls/Vtec
(Screen names are from HMT, sorry if its confusing)
Starting off Sunday night 4/4. I drove down to Tacoma to pic this LS shortblock up from Colten (45psi) It was Onyx's old block from his integra with very high milage.
The block was just caked with built up oil, Heavy build up
The guy had overfilled the oil and was raping it and it ended up bending a rod.
Started to tear down the engine on Monday, after inspecting the main bearings I was a little freaked out, they had some really odd wear patterns like nothing I've seen before. Probably due to the bent rod. I had suspension that the crank was bent. Using a Dial indicator, I checked it and it was fine. Dont wanna be spinning 8500rpms with a bent crank
Normally if this was an engine I cared about, I would put a nice set of factory bearings in this thing, but I didnt have time for special order bearings, and the price of factory bearings are spendy.
So we went with a nice ******* cheap set of Napa Main bearings for 22 bucks, hah. Standard bearings in a honda? like ya.. no such thing :
As you can see I steamed the living **** out of the block with acid and degreaser. It came out really clean.
Sunday Night I also picked up my Old B18b rods/pistons from my old ls/vtec turbo. Dustin had them sitting in his garage forever. Thanks dude! bearings were in perfect shape.
I also went with a nice set of cheapy rings through worldpac. I think they were like 28 bucks?
Note: the cheapy piston installer, some people think these things are ******* shitty. I have never used such an easy ring compressor, no broken rings and goes in perfect everytime.
I gave the block a quick hone job to give it a nice cross hatch. (hence the word quick) flat rate style..
Flat rate style ment checking bearings tolerneces on 1 cylinder and that was it, haha. I checked 1 main and 1 rod, they looked good. So ::crosses fingers:: shouldnt knock, well not right now anyways.
Monday the entire shortblock was completed, so tuesday I chopped the intake manifold in half and had my buddy weld on a big tube (large plenum) I spent the day smoothing out the runners.
Bling bling! came out real nice inside, brang it back to him later on that day to get the other half welded back on.
Tuesday Night I ripped the Trailerpark B16a head off, and I mean fast.. I had the head off in less than 15 mins and the car pushed out. I'm not trying to brag, but god damn... I couldnt beleive it, haha... The guys in the shop were like WTF? you just drove it in, now your pushing it out?
Wed, I started working on the head, it really needed some attention. I got this head (and b16a longblock) for doing a motor swap. The exhaust valves were beat very hard. (this was the same engine I did the homemade throttle bodies on)
I went ahead and lapped the **** out of the valves and cleaned all the carbon off them. Normally I'd just spit the money out for a full valve grind, but I didnt have time nor the money.
In order to make a Vtec head fit on a non-vtec block you have to bore out the dowl pin holes, Normally I'd just take this to my buddies house and use his drill press or buy those nifty fittings from GE, again.. that money time factor comes into play.. I borrowed a huge *** drill bit that was designed for a press that I had to grind down to even fit in my drill, so lets just say... it wasnt so precise, hahah
Again another mod for the vtec head, you have to block this oil passage, just used a steel 1/8th NPT plug
Since the head was off, and all the valves were out I wanted to spend some time on the head. Clean up some of the casting flaws and do some minor porting. Spent a few hours on it.
Finally the head is done
Late Wed Night I started to put this thing together, I was running into all kinds of missing parts, god damn onyx stripped this block ******* clean.
I decidied as much as I like to stare at my ITR cams on my computer desk, I wanted to see how they worked in something. Also decided to paint the block flat black, nobody liked this idea, but I dont care.. It hides oil leaks!
End of Wed Night I had both manifolds all mocked up, using stainless steel weld el's from mcmaster.com, run about 4.20 a piece and used about 8 of them. Even though I didnt do the welding on it, (just tacking everything in place) I thought I did a pretty good for mocking up my first manifold like this
Thursday Morning I got the manifold back all welded up and ready to go, I started working on the oil feed. I was going to use some nice stainless lines with -an fittings. But it wouldnt be HMT without the Barb'd oil fittings, heh. I didnt have the right banjo fitting So I robbed one off a 3000gt slave cylinder, lucky find.
Oil return was was pretty basic, I planned on merging both oil returns into one. This fitting got all fucked up after the project was done I didnt do a good job welding the backside
leaks like a mother ******, Gotta fix that.Finally we got a local supplier with Mandrel bends (INSTOCK!) beau hooked me up, with 3 2.5's and 1 3.0 for dirt cheap.
I've been using the same Upper IC charge pipe on the last 5 setups in my car, and it looked like the most fucked up mangled piece of **** known to man kind, (shown behind) So it was time for a new upper IC pipe, found a perfect hole saw for putting my Tial BOV flange in.
Thursday I waited for beau to get off work to help me with the downpipes, so I decidied to work on my built ls/vtec and start doing a little bit of work on it too, just to kill some time.
Got my head back from the machine shop with all 1mm oversize stainless steel valves, titanium retainers, duel valve springs, looked pretty! I went ahead and torqued the head on.
Beau Working on the downpipes, I really wanted to go for something simple, like a 2 1/2 from the top turbo dump right into the bottom 2.5 dp.
We used my built ls/vtec to mock the setup on, while I was still doing some final stuff to the FL Ls/Vtec.
Of course Beau had to get a little wild on the Downpipes, I walked over, and was like... whoa! Nice job dude, Both pipes come down under the pan and merge into a 3in collector and doglag's left.
Copyright Downpipe **** Shot... by Garrison Gerth
Thursday night was a ******* late one.. I pulled the Trailerpark B16a out of my car and pitched that ****** in the side of the shop. I glanced at the cylinder walls and just shook my head. The block is so fucked up.
Late Late Thursday night I'm freaking out because some guy took the cherry picker home and I couldnt get the freaking engine off the engine stand by myself, buddy travis to the rescue. Thanks man!
Putting engines in from the bottom is so nice with a lift
You can see the custom X member Beau made for me awhile back. All done in stainlless steel, & adjustable (ya thats a alternator bracket as a my radiator bracket) hah
Friday Night we had the dP's all welded up, and I was doing test fits with the intercooler. I forgot my camara this day and was in such a hurry to get this thing done. I had alot of friends give me a hand to finish her up.
Charge pipes were a hoe, the duel inlet on the intercooler was a very bad idea, and wish it was setup like a normal intercooler.
Oil feed was setup with a tuner toyz fitting off the back of the block, to another T, 1 for the head, and 1 for the turbo. Then the Turbo feed got split off again. All using 1/8th NPT fittings. Shitty *** NAPA sold out of my favorite black hose I normally use and hand to use some homo *** red high pressure hose.
Friday everything was in and running, it ran like complete **** at first, Oil was coming out of the turbos really bad, coolant was blowing out of the back of the block, and I had 2 foot flames coming out of the downpipe. OMG, hahah
Anyways the o-ring seal on the back of the block (tube that runs to the water pump blew out) So after replacing that twice.. it was fixed. And the the oil was because the dipstick wasnt in, !~!!!!! The PR3 map I had a real heavy enrichment at cold startup so I dont think it liked it.
Completed....
Saturday Morning, I wanted to get this thing done for a local honda-tech meet, and for some local street racers saying that I was talking bullshit about a TT setup. You should of seen the peoples faces at the honda-tech meet. One guy asked "Who brand manifold is that" I told him it was a Drag Gen 7 beta 2b. roflYes, it fits, Yes it runs.. The questions Is it fast? I'd say so. Honestly, I've never had a turbo setup sound like this. It sounds really werid, almost like my Buddies Rotary. I've drove lots of turbo hondas open DP, but nothing like this. Boost comes in incredibly fast, way faster than I thought. Spools 5psi around 2800rpms, and holds 7psi all the way to 8300. When the ITR cams kick in, the thing gets pretty wild. I'm running my old ls/vtec turbo spark & fuel map. Seems to be running pretty good but needs lots of minor adjustments. Coolant leaks probably that (coughusedheadgasketcough)
and the oil leaks from the return pretty bad. Thats what you get when you flatrate ****.Another shot.. yes its very cluttered right now, plus I had a little incident with coolant blowing everywhere, onyx left the coolant drain plug loose and I didnt check it :-\
I dont care whatcha guys say.. I like flat black... btw, can you see the welds on the intake mani? Lionel ground them down flush and you cant even see them. Looks great! Only 1 flaw in this manifold design and the end cap wasnt rounded (bulged out) instead it was just capped off.
Overall it was a fun setup, would I do it again? No.. lots of people kept saying "what a waste of money" well, this entire setup didnt cost me much at all, I get lots of little perks from HMT so it lets me do this kinds of stuff on a cheap level. This was just an experiment, just to have fun and see how well it performed, I'm not here saying twin turbo setups are the ****, in fact.. they are a pain in the ***, and I cant wait to get my single setup on.
What am I expecting of this? Well I'm sure I'll dyno it, and see if I can get 300whp out of it, maybe rape it around a bit more, save some money and finish up my built ls/vtec and put on my 62-1. As far as how fast is it? it's not nearly as fast as my Crvtec Turbo, but it does have that nice b-series pull
Enjoy the pics guys (I know its long) and fire away with the questions
Jeff Frank
04-11-2004, 08:23 PM
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Re: Introducing Flat-Rate B18 Twin Turbo (turbohf)
haha, Dustin you have mad love for the twin setup 
Btw heres the mod list..
B18a/B16a Ls/vtec (stock)
YS1 Tranny
ACT Xtreme PP w/ a worn GSR disc
ITR Camshafts
GSR Intake Valve Springs (duel valve springs) Intake/Exhaust
Slight Head Port Work
Custom Intake Manifold
Custom Exhaust Manifold
B16a Throttle Body
450cc DSM Injectors
Zdyne Gold SECU
GM 3bar Map sensor
2 IHI RHb5 Turbos (subaru)
Tyrus FMIC (custom)
Tial 50mm BOV
2.5IC piping
No Exhaust
Nology Spark Plug Wires
MSD 6btm & Coil
Custom Front X member
H&R Race Springs
Rota Group N Wheels
Btw heres the mod list..
B18a/B16a Ls/vtec (stock)
YS1 Tranny
ACT Xtreme PP w/ a worn GSR disc
ITR Camshafts
GSR Intake Valve Springs (duel valve springs) Intake/Exhaust
Slight Head Port Work
Custom Intake Manifold
Custom Exhaust Manifold
B16a Throttle Body
450cc DSM Injectors
Zdyne Gold SECU
GM 3bar Map sensor
2 IHI RHb5 Turbos (subaru)
Tyrus FMIC (custom)
Tial 50mm BOV
2.5IC piping
No Exhaust
Nology Spark Plug Wires
MSD 6btm & Coil
Custom Front X member
H&R Race Springs
Rota Group N Wheels
04-11-2004, 08:27 PM
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Re: Introducing Flat-Rate B18 Twin Turbo (AbaZ)
Very nice writeup.
"Spools 5psi around 2800rpms, and holds 7psi all the way to 8300. "
that sounds like fun in a crx
"Spools 5psi around 2800rpms, and holds 7psi all the way to 8300. "
that sounds like fun in a crx
04-11-2004, 08:30 PM
#7
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Re: Introducing Flat-Rate B18 Twin Turbo (psileepR)
yeah it is bad ***....just felt like getting it out of the way
btw 2800rpms??? damn like my ZC huh...
btw 2800rpms??? damn like my ZC huh...
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04-11-2004, 09:10 PM
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what is the size of that intercooler....im wanting to go to a bigger intercooler and im not sure what the biggest and best fit i can do..
04-11-2004, 09:18 PM
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Re: (Big Josh)
ten out of ten for originality and mgyverin it.
two out of ten for building the motor with the correct parts..
I give those rings about two months before they go bye bye :-)
but hey, it will be fun as hell untill then, no?
Sweet to say you have a twin turbo honda!
two out of ten for building the motor with the correct parts..
I give those rings about two months before they go bye bye :-)
but hey, it will be fun as hell untill then, no?
Sweet to say you have a twin turbo honda!
04-11-2004, 09:58 PM
#17
OG triple OG
Re: (PaX)
pretty pimp , much better than the twin turbo 4th gen thats been floating around.
whats up with that intake mani , was it a b16a that you cut and rewelded , ive never herd of this , awsome originality. i love it . writeup on the intake mani
whats up with that intake mani , was it a b16a that you cut and rewelded , ive never herd of this , awsome originality. i love it . writeup on the intake mani
04-11-2004, 10:28 PM
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Great pics thanks you for to show all of them and.......
Very nice setup You do very good job and clean again. Enjoy your setup on the street and clearly turn up the boost to say what can you with this .
Very nice projet Jeff
COUTO
04-11-2004, 11:04 PM
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Re: Introducing Flat-Rate B18 Twin Turbo (AbaZ)
Dude, that's just ******* sick! SWEET SETUP! I couldn't believe this when I saw it.
That's BADASS!! Hope it works out well for ya man. The crx is purty too
you GOTTA keep me up to date on this. That's soo damn cool!
That's BADASS!! Hope it works out well for ya man. The crx is purty too
you GOTTA keep me up to date on this. That's soo damn cool!
