bdavis

I am contemplating replacing my JSRC with a small turbo for a myriad of reasons on my rallyx car. Is it possible to get supercharger like response with a small bb turbo? I am not looking for a lot of power, so I don't mind running out breath. Years ago, I put on a JSRC for the instant torque. While it is awesome, I often think I could replace it with a turbo and yield similar results.
My set up is -
96 hatch
B20 block - stock sleeves
Rods/pistons
GSR head
JSRC - 8 lbs - intercooled

Any suggestions?

It would have to be a cast manifold and the turbo would need to allow a full length radiator.

Thanks
Burke

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Do you have a dyno graph or data log of your current setup? Or are you basing the results off your butt dyno?

bdavis

No dyno graphs sorry. And no datalogs either.

I guess I'm looking to see if anyone has any insight to the spool characteristics of something similar to a gt2552 on a 2.0l.

I rev to 8k and maxing out a tiny turbo to make 250-270whp is all I am looking for. Hell, even that would be a lot. I probably make something like 220whp now.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

I have a greddy 18g on my high comp b20 vtec motor

Stock gsr cams

Motor sees boost at 2k rpm and full boost 10psi around 3500rpm

My setting on my aem still needs to be tweaked to get faster spool up

My buttdyno puts it at about 250whp

B20VtecVillain

Back in the day a bit I ran a disco potato (Gt2860RS) on my built D series and got a pretty wicked TQ curve and good overall numbers. Was a very easy spooling turbo as well, fl boost well before 4000. Some of the really small stock turbos may be well for your setup too. A Garett GT17xx would probably spool like crazy on your engine. One thing about these smaller inefficient turbos though, I know you say you don't mind running out of breath early, but you may also run into problems with high IATs due to the heat created by working some of these tiny huffers to the bone like this. That may be something your already well versed in dealing with due to being SC'd, but definately worth thinking about if your planning to push this setup hard.

$amGD3

OP Y U NO ADD TURBO TO UR SC SETUP?!?!


TWIN CHARGED


DO IT SON

Geis

Hmmmmm I wonder if he can run a sequential bi-turbo setup in conjunction with the supercharger to make a tri-charged setup... just a thought

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

"They were so busy wondering if they could, they didn't stop to think if they should..."

bdavis

A gt28rs would be nice, but I would prefer to get boost at a lower engine speed.
Same with an 18g, too big. I am looking for little turbo that will max out at 250whp. Both of those are capable of well over 300whp.
I am not scared to run 15-20psi (if it makes sense for the turbo to spin it that fast) and end up with 250hp.

B20VtecVillain

Instant off throttle torque and 250whp or less sounds like exactly what a nice blower/after cooler setup would provide. Why may I ask are you specifically looking to go turbo? I mean a Garett GT1749 would be in the realm of what your looking for, but it would probably run you about a grand or more new and if you could just change pulleys, add a cooler and retune, why wouldn't that be the more viable option.

Kevinio

The GT2560R will do the job, maybe upgrade to a billet wheel. You will have a spool up around 2000rpm with the B20 en still can run to 330hp.

B20VtecVillain

I don't think a GT2560 will be at full boost much sooner than a 2860 which he already shot down as being too big. The problem tho is that anything super small that will be worked as hard as he is saying, will generate a ton of heat and likely the IATs will be way higher than ideal

Kevinio

You're right about the heat. On a D16 a GT2560r spools 700rpm earlier than a GT2860rs.

met

From the the quick search some og the gt28's make about 180lbs of torque by 2500ish most dynos don't go that low so a little hard to tell. The jackson sc dyno was comparable. Hit up shodan on here he will point in the right direction. I guess its me I don't understand why in any racing event you would be that low in the rpm range.

Kevinio

And a Honda and making torque before 3000rpm? Huh?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

The gt2560 will most definitely spool faster than a 2860. It has a smaller turbine side. That being said the 2560 will be all bottom end and some midrange. It simply doesn't have enough mass turbine flow for top end power on your application.

The 2860 is perfect. User lightningteg ran one at 20psi on his bone stock LS and made 300/300 and he used the car for autox. He absolutely loved it and it was by no means laggy. You'll see positive pressure at around 2000-2500 depending on gear.

The other thing you have to remember is having tons of torque that early looks great on paper but unless you're running big sticky tires or traction control you'll have all sorts of wheelspin issues. Too much torque too early will produce the same issues that a sudden surge of torque does with a larger turbo.

met

See finally someone who knows, to add your 2L most of the graphs are for 1.8's. I have a 1.8 that's punched out to 83mm, the extra displacement makes more of difference than you realize. I am doing time attacks for fun with a gt35. In the rpm ranges I stay at I never get in the range of any lag what so ever, maybe some light foot control on the pedal at times to control the power. After getting everything ported, heads, intake, it made a fairly large difference on the low end it makes torque come in much sooner and the onset is much more gradual.

B20VtecVillain

Yes his setup being a B20V will definately increase the rate of spool on these small turbos, which is why I suggested the disco potato to begin with. Personally I don't see why you would want to run anything smaller on that setup. Would a smaller unit spool faster, sure maybe 500-1000 rpm even but you would sacrifice a lot up top and increase IATs significantly. I don't think there is any situation in the type of racing you do where a GT2860RS would be "too big". Just make sure to stay away from the cheap copies and get a real quality unit otherwise you will be in for a world of headaches.

Kevinio

I would go for the GTX2860R in stead of the GT2860RS. Billet compressor wheel, faster spool, and more pressure possible.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

The 2860 actually has a slightly better map in terms of pressure capacity. The 2860r and 2860rs both have the same mass flow limit, the RS is just slightly more efficient.

bdavis

Wow! Thanks for all the advise.

And when you all speak of heat, it is nothing compared to the JRSC. Mine is aftercooled using two laminova heatexchangers similar to the LHT kit. After a run (~60 seconds) the IAT's are up to 80-100C, after a 4-5 minutes it will get down to 15-20C above ambient.

The setup just heat soaks sooo damn quickly.

The JSRC is hard to work on and I can continually running into issues with header cracks, etc. Mounting the engine too rigidly and I shear the heads on the bolts that hold the blower to the intake. I have been doing some ice racing lately and noticed I could use some more power. The blower is only going to make more heat if I crank the boost anymore.

LightningTeg

I had a GT2560R on my stock LS for a couple years. It was a blast. Really any RPM over 3000 and it was full boost within a second. You have the added displacement so it should be even sooner. Got it brand new from a user here for $700

Dont let the graph deceive you, it is very responsive. I kept up with some 350whp-400whp cars from a roll on too because the powerband was so large. And the 17lbs is what the boost fell too after peaking at 21lbs or so.



Autocrossing, you know when I floored it. Response was almost N/A like. Got lots of compliments from a friend of mine that races in Global time attack "Most fun in a honda hes had".

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Told you lol

B20VtecVillain

The main issue for such high IATs on these setups is the inefficient small Eatons used for the standard setups. Using larger twin screws I have seen 500+whp blower Ks, and they are animals. As soon as you roll into the throttle you have seemingly endless torque. Tire eater setup no doubt. Not sure how fitment would be on our B series because our engines are a reversed setup compared to the K obviously, but if a larger twin screw can be fitted to an after cooled setup you could make big power with a ridiculous curve and not have insanely high IATs.

bdavis

I'm ready to switch to a turbo in the coming months. I broke the header again this past weekend and really don't feel like fixing it.

Any suggestions on cast exhaust manifolds and turbine housings that will fit with power steering and a full size radiator? I would like to have something with decent boost control. I like the idea of an internal wastegate, but I don't know if it will fit or perform to my tolerance. I'd like to play with traction control in the future. I'm sure I'll have more power than I can put down so I will take reliability, ease of maintenance, and packaging (in that order) over optimal performance or top end power. Quick spool and a fat midrange is paramount.

My buddy has a GT2871 that ate something solid through the turbine that I could get on the cheap. The exhaust housing is a 4-bolt, .48ar. I'm not sure the reliability of trying to fix something like that, but it leaves open a bunch of hot side options.

Edit - I also have a GSR head and I dont want to put the stock manifold back on. Any suggestions there too?