How does my catch can setup look to you?
12-27-2005, 08:38 PM
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How does my catch can setup look to you?
Please, i searched alot, read though https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=1 and decided how i was going to do it.
Now i just want to make sure ive got everything the way it should be!
Since emissions control is important, It MUST operate in a closed loop system, and the same way it did originally. No vents on this can.
I decided to go with a Intake slash cut evacuation (pre turbo), and use a freeze plug to plug up the old PCV black box location, as well as use # 11107-Pk2-003 (the brass fitting) and # 12207-1634-300 (washer) to tap into the back of the block. I choose to only run 1 line from the back of the block (z10 recommends this, due to that the plug on the timing belt side is more for oil return) I used the one above the factory black box.
Now from there, i plan to run a line to a 'T' Fitting, and then from my factory valve cover vent, i plan to run a line from there to the 'T' Fittin also. Then from the T fitting, to my catch can (baffled or steel wool filled). Then from my catch can (has 2 ports) to the slashcut on the pipe between the turbo and the filter.
Picture Taken From Thread Above
Here is a pic, Of exactly what i plan to do.
So everyone how does this setup look everyone
I do relize that periodically i will need to clean the Intercooler/Chargepipes as some blowby will still pass though the catchcan, but far less then if there was no catchcan
Oh yes.. here are the terms it must agree with
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The PCV system must be maintained in a "closed loop configuration". This means that the 'fumes' from the crank case cannot be vented into the atmosphere, but must be routed back into the intake system and burned off through the normal combustion and exhaust system.
There is also the requirement that if a vehicle or engine manufacturer installs an anti-pollution component onto the vehicle it must be maintained in good working order and in constant operation. If you replace the component, the replacement part must meet or exceed the performance of the original part.
EPA O.Reg 361/98
7. (1) If a motor or motor vehicle is manufactured with a system or device to prevent or lessen the emission of any contaminant, the following standards are prescribed as additional maximum emission standards for the vehicle:
1. The system or device, or any replacement therefor, must be maintained or kept in such a state of repair that it is capable of performing the function for which it was intended.
2. The system or device, or any replacement therefor, must be kept installed on, attached to or incorporated in the motor or motor vehicle in such a manner that, when the motor or motor vehicle is operating, the system or device functions in the manner in which it was intended to function.
So, after all that; basically if your modification still does what the original part did, then you will be OK.
PC Mike Lacroix CD #1104
York Regional Police
Traffic Bureau
17250 Yonge St, Newmarket ON L3Y 4W5
905-830-0303 X7703
fax 905-841-0665
1-866-8POLICE
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I plan to keep a printout of that in my glovebox.
Now i just want to make sure ive got everything the way it should be!
Since emissions control is important, It MUST operate in a closed loop system, and the same way it did originally. No vents on this can.
I decided to go with a Intake slash cut evacuation (pre turbo), and use a freeze plug to plug up the old PCV black box location, as well as use # 11107-Pk2-003 (the brass fitting) and # 12207-1634-300 (washer) to tap into the back of the block. I choose to only run 1 line from the back of the block (z10 recommends this, due to that the plug on the timing belt side is more for oil return) I used the one above the factory black box.
Now from there, i plan to run a line to a 'T' Fitting, and then from my factory valve cover vent, i plan to run a line from there to the 'T' Fittin also. Then from the T fitting, to my catch can (baffled or steel wool filled). Then from my catch can (has 2 ports) to the slashcut on the pipe between the turbo and the filter.
Picture Taken From Thread Above
Here is a pic, Of exactly what i plan to do.
So everyone how does this setup look everyone
I do relize that periodically i will need to clean the Intercooler/Chargepipes as some blowby will still pass though the catchcan, but far less then if there was no catchcan
Oh yes.. here are the terms it must agree with
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The PCV system must be maintained in a "closed loop configuration". This means that the 'fumes' from the crank case cannot be vented into the atmosphere, but must be routed back into the intake system and burned off through the normal combustion and exhaust system.
There is also the requirement that if a vehicle or engine manufacturer installs an anti-pollution component onto the vehicle it must be maintained in good working order and in constant operation. If you replace the component, the replacement part must meet or exceed the performance of the original part.
EPA O.Reg 361/98
7. (1) If a motor or motor vehicle is manufactured with a system or device to prevent or lessen the emission of any contaminant, the following standards are prescribed as additional maximum emission standards for the vehicle:
1. The system or device, or any replacement therefor, must be maintained or kept in such a state of repair that it is capable of performing the function for which it was intended.
2. The system or device, or any replacement therefor, must be kept installed on, attached to or incorporated in the motor or motor vehicle in such a manner that, when the motor or motor vehicle is operating, the system or device functions in the manner in which it was intended to function.
So, after all that; basically if your modification still does what the original part did, then you will be OK.
PC Mike Lacroix CD #1104
York Regional Police
Traffic Bureau
17250 Yonge St, Newmarket ON L3Y 4W5
905-830-0303 X7703
fax 905-841-0665
1-866-8POLICE
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I plan to keep a printout of that in my glovebox.
12-27-2005, 08:56 PM
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Re: (Sketch_hs)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sketch_hs »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">show us pics when its done.
"legal"
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes I dont have $380 + tow to dish out each time i get caught.
The whole idea was to know if this is proper, before i go and install it
"legal"
</TD></TR></TABLE>Yes I dont have $380 + tow to dish out each time i get caught.
The whole idea was to know if this is proper, before i go and install it
12-27-2005, 09:05 PM
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Re: (HamiltonRex)
yes its proper, but its a bad idea, that turbo is gonna create enough vaccum to suck the steel wool out of that catch can. better idea is the slash cut in your exhausts b-pipe, that way even if the vaccum is too high, its only suckin that crap into your exhasut where it will burn up. Better than into your turbo... IMO, you could also use the evap. purge solenoid to regulate when the catch can sees vaccum. I'm working on that one right now.
12-27-2005, 09:14 PM
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Re: (fastrunner)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastrunner »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes its proper, but its a bad idea, that turbo is gonna create enough vaccum to suck the steel wool out of that catch can. better idea is the slash cut in your exhausts b-pipe, that way even if the vaccum is too high, its only suckin that crap into your exhasut where it will burn up. Better than into your turbo... IMO, you could also use the evap. purge solenoid to regulate when the catch can sees vaccum. I'm working on that one right now. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I cant use an exhaust slash..
It will produce that much vacume..? Even at 7-10psi?
It seems that would be a good idea to use the purge solenoid. But how would i control when to purge it? And when would be the best time?, crankcase needs venting 100% of the time.. i thought?
I cant use an exhaust slash..
It will produce that much vacume..? Even at 7-10psi?
It seems that would be a good idea to use the purge solenoid. But how would i control when to purge it? And when would be the best time?, crankcase needs venting 100% of the time.. i thought?
12-28-2005, 10:31 AM
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Re: (HamiltonRex)
You need to change two things:
Your vaccum source or the depth of your catch can so that under heavy vaccum it wont suck anything into the turbo.
The second thing is you have the valve cover breather hooked up to the same line as the one coming off the back of the block, you need to be able to breath the valve cover separately so it is not dependant on the vaccum drawn through the block. It should at least have its own line to the catch can.
I would stagger the inlets to the catch can:
Top of catch can
outlet to turbo for vaccum
inlet for valve cover
inlet for back of block
Bottom of catch can
That would be the safest close loop setup without changing too much or using an controller like e-boost that can signal a solenoid to open or close under boost.
Good luck, its tough to make power legally. You are on the right track, snap some picks or IM me if you want.
Your vaccum source or the depth of your catch can so that under heavy vaccum it wont suck anything into the turbo.
The second thing is you have the valve cover breather hooked up to the same line as the one coming off the back of the block, you need to be able to breath the valve cover separately so it is not dependant on the vaccum drawn through the block. It should at least have its own line to the catch can.
I would stagger the inlets to the catch can:
Top of catch can
outlet to turbo for vaccum
inlet for valve cover
inlet for back of block
Bottom of catch can
That would be the safest close loop setup without changing too much or using an controller like e-boost that can signal a solenoid to open or close under boost.
Good luck, its tough to make power legally. You are on the right track, snap some picks or IM me if you want.
12-28-2005, 11:25 AM
#7
Man U FTW
not to steal the thread but can i ask why you have to do this?? I'm not familiar w/ catch cans and i think its to do w/ the fact that i don't live in a state that has smog testing and all that fun stuff.....could someone give me the nutshell version of why.....thanks
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12-28-2005, 11:38 AM
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Re: (Schister66)
obviously fastrunner is smarter then me, so I will let him do all the ******* work instead of voicing my opinion
Modified by clemsonteg at 7:22 PM 12/30/2005
Modified by clemsonteg at 7:22 PM 12/30/2005
12-28-2005, 11:51 AM
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Re: (clemsonteg)
ok, so valve cover breather wouldnt go though the catch can?
Im worried about oil entering my turbo.. Althought i will clean it periodically. But why cant i also put this though the same can.. Or Run 2 cans?
Im worried about oil entering my turbo.. Althought i will clean it periodically. But why cant i also put this though the same can.. Or Run 2 cans?
12-28-2005, 01:18 PM
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Re: (HamiltonRex)
obviously fastrunner is smarter then me, so I will let him do all the ******* work instead of voicing my opinion
Modified by clemsonteg at 7:23 PM 12/30/2005
Modified by clemsonteg at 7:23 PM 12/30/2005
12-28-2005, 03:31 PM
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Re: How does my catch can setup look to you? (SOHC_MShue)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">do police around your area really make you pop your hood and show your pcv equipment?</TD></TR></TABLE>
no doubt, i dump my PCV tube to the ground..
catch cans really are useless if you ask me
no doubt, i dump my PCV tube to the ground..
catch cans really are useless if you ask me
12-28-2005, 04:37 PM
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Re: How does my catch can setup look to you? (shortyz21)
Yes they do.
The check for charcoal canisters, PCV systems, along with Catalytic Converts.
There can be strict as well.
The check for charcoal canisters, PCV systems, along with Catalytic Converts.
There can be strict as well.
12-28-2005, 04:58 PM
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Re: (clemsonteg)
wow what the hell is going on here?<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clemsonteg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">in your case if your 2 ports on the catch can are side by side then you would just choose 1 for each line here is a closed loop setup
</TD></TR></TABLE>
uh the way you show the VC hooked up there you will be PRESSURIZING the valve cover. The slashcut needs to be reversed.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastrunner »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You need to change two things:
Your vaccum source or the depth of your catch can so that under heavy vaccum it wont suck anything into the turbo.
The second thing is you have the valve cover breather hooked up to the same line as the one coming off the back of the block, you need to be able to breath the valve cover separately so it is not dependant on the vaccum drawn through the block. It should at least have its own line to the catch can.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
a) Its gonna suck **** into the turbo as long as its closed loop
b) the way he has the VC hooked up looks fine to me, the oil catch can is seeing the vacuum and therefore providing vacuum for both the block and the VC.
---------------
Just know it will pull a good deal of crap through your turbo, i have a similar setup and switched to OPEN pcv cause of all the crap it was sucking through my turbo and IC- that **** is gross!
Here is a pic of my setup:
1 line goes from back of block to catch
2 line goes from other fitting in block to catch
3 I added a fitting to my catchan for a slashcut on the other end, so as to trap as much crap as possible.
Since i took the pic i have removed the VC breather and T'd it into the 2nd line coming off the block, the filter was blowing too much oil vapor on my intake manifold and made it dirty. ALso, instead of running a slashcut i just dump to the ground now- didint like how dirty it was making my turbo and charge pipes.
Hope this helps!
</TD></TR></TABLE>uh the way you show the VC hooked up there you will be PRESSURIZING the valve cover. The slashcut needs to be reversed.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastrunner »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You need to change two things:
Your vaccum source or the depth of your catch can so that under heavy vaccum it wont suck anything into the turbo.
The second thing is you have the valve cover breather hooked up to the same line as the one coming off the back of the block, you need to be able to breath the valve cover separately so it is not dependant on the vaccum drawn through the block. It should at least have its own line to the catch can.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
a) Its gonna suck **** into the turbo as long as its closed loop
b) the way he has the VC hooked up looks fine to me, the oil catch can is seeing the vacuum and therefore providing vacuum for both the block and the VC.
---------------
Just know it will pull a good deal of crap through your turbo, i have a similar setup and switched to OPEN pcv cause of all the crap it was sucking through my turbo and IC- that **** is gross!
Here is a pic of my setup:
1 line goes from back of block to catch
2 line goes from other fitting in block to catch
3 I added a fitting to my catchan for a slashcut on the other end, so as to trap as much crap as possible.
Since i took the pic i have removed the VC breather and T'd it into the 2nd line coming off the block, the filter was blowing too much oil vapor on my intake manifold and made it dirty. ALso, instead of running a slashcut i just dump to the ground now- didint like how dirty it was making my turbo and charge pipes.
Hope this helps!
12-29-2005, 08:47 PM
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Re: (fastrunner)
obviously fastrunner is smarter then me, so I will let him do all the ******* work instead of voicing my opinion
Modified by clemsonteg at 7:24 PM 12/30/2005
Modified by clemsonteg at 7:24 PM 12/30/2005
12-29-2005, 09:51 PM
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Re: (clemsonteg)
Problem with that setup is you are still using the black PCV box behind the block... That is the weak link with the added vaccum of a turbo it will draw oil into the box and it will not drain out fast enough.
Why do you think Z10 and Endyn do away with that box???
Oh and by the way... what happens when you are in vaccum with that setup? No more crankcase venting I guess. Cuz if the turbo isn't spinning fast enough to produce moderate vaccum then that setup is useless. And the guy said closed loop... Notice the valve cover breather that is wide open.
Solution is:<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastrunner »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You need to change two things:
Your vaccum source or the depth of your catch can so that under heavy vaccum it wont suck anything into the turbo.
The second thing is you have the valve cover breather hooked up to the same line as the one coming off the back of the block, you need to be able to breath the valve cover separately so it is not dependant on the vaccum drawn through the block. It should at least have its own line to the catch can.
I would stagger the inlets to the catch can:
Top of catch can
outlet to turbo for vaccum
inlet for valve cover
inlet for back of block
Bottom of catch can
That would be the safest close loop setup without changing too much or using an controller like e-boost that can signal a solenoid to open or close under boost.
Good luck, its tough to make power legally. You are on the right track, snap some picks or IM me if you want.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
You would think people would post from knowledge, not G2ic or someone elses poorly thought out crap. Whatever you do dont use the stock PCV system to achieve your goal, the motor wasn't designed for boost, thats some hacks Windows Paint drawn bullshit excuse for a good setup. Do not use that ****.
Why do you think Z10 and Endyn do away with that box???
Oh and by the way... what happens when you are in vaccum with that setup? No more crankcase venting I guess. Cuz if the turbo isn't spinning fast enough to produce moderate vaccum then that setup is useless. And the guy said closed loop... Notice the valve cover breather that is wide open.
Solution is:<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastrunner »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You need to change two things:
Your vaccum source or the depth of your catch can so that under heavy vaccum it wont suck anything into the turbo.
The second thing is you have the valve cover breather hooked up to the same line as the one coming off the back of the block, you need to be able to breath the valve cover separately so it is not dependant on the vaccum drawn through the block. It should at least have its own line to the catch can.
I would stagger the inlets to the catch can:
Top of catch can
outlet to turbo for vaccum
inlet for valve cover
inlet for back of block
Bottom of catch can
That would be the safest close loop setup without changing too much or using an controller like e-boost that can signal a solenoid to open or close under boost.
Good luck, its tough to make power legally. You are on the right track, snap some picks or IM me if you want.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
You would think people would post from knowledge, not G2ic or someone elses poorly thought out crap. Whatever you do dont use the stock PCV system to achieve your goal, the motor wasn't designed for boost, thats some hacks Windows Paint drawn bullshit excuse for a good setup. Do not use that ****.
12-30-2005, 06:21 PM
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Re: (fastrunner)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastrunner »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You would think people would post from knowledge, not G2ic or someone elses poorly thought out crap. Whatever you do dont use the stock PCV system to achieve your goal, the motor wasn't designed for boost, thats some hacks Windows Paint drawn bullshit excuse for a good setup. Do not use that ****.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Excuse the f*ck out of me for trying to help someone out, I have seen this setup just like this on several cars, and have heard no problems, but you obviously know more then me so please let me go back and edit all of my post to fit your liking
You would think people would post from knowledge, not G2ic or someone elses poorly thought out crap. Whatever you do dont use the stock PCV system to achieve your goal, the motor wasn't designed for boost, thats some hacks Windows Paint drawn bullshit excuse for a good setup. Do not use that ****.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Excuse the f*ck out of me for trying to help someone out, I have seen this setup just like this on several cars, and have heard no problems, but you obviously know more then me so please let me go back and edit all of my post to fit your liking
12-30-2005, 09:25 PM
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Re: (clemsonteg)
I didn't edit your post, don't be a whiner, I'm not trying to **** on your knowledge. You need to read a vaccum diagram from helms or all-data for the engine to understand why the stock pcv system is so useless on turbo honda's.
I apologize for being so rude.
I apologize for being so rude.
12-30-2005, 09:56 PM
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Re: (fastrunner)
O_o
The whole reason the 'slashcut' is popular with HT catchcan setups is due to a few factors: 1) It is usually used in the exhaust pipe to turn slightly pressurized airflow into a vacuum, 2) The majority of the USA population doesn't have cops that inspect your *entire* emissions system, thus the reason it's put in the exhaust.
I'll admit that sucking air from the crankcase will help with power production, but there *is* a point of diminishing returns. Not much vacuum is really needed. The PCV valve is used in conjunction with a [slight] slashcut in a stock system because flow is usually low. Not running a PCV valve along with a turbo means that you don't need much of an opening for it to suck from, since that area is always producing vacuum.
<U>My 'ciffnotes' opinion: run w/o slashcut to reduce amount being drawn into turbo, which will still abide by the law.</U>
The whole reason the 'slashcut' is popular with HT catchcan setups is due to a few factors: 1) It is usually used in the exhaust pipe to turn slightly pressurized airflow into a vacuum, 2) The majority of the USA population doesn't have cops that inspect your *entire* emissions system, thus the reason it's put in the exhaust.
I'll admit that sucking air from the crankcase will help with power production, but there *is* a point of diminishing returns. Not much vacuum is really needed. The PCV valve is used in conjunction with a [slight] slashcut in a stock system because flow is usually low. Not running a PCV valve along with a turbo means that you don't need much of an opening for it to suck from, since that area is always producing vacuum.
<U>My 'ciffnotes' opinion: run w/o slashcut to reduce amount being drawn into turbo, which will still abide by the law.</U>
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