0Fluidampr-Tech

I just received an email of what likely happened from our engineer. I replied to your email. Please share the information with as many as you can.

As I explained in the email, our engineer has pointed out this is not the first case of this issue and it is not limited to Fluidampr so all should be aware.

Dyno charts I was referring to in regard to S2000 testing:

http://www.fluidampr.com/assets/docu...HondaS2000.pdf

Tippyman

And... what likely happened?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I think he wants the OP to share the information so it doesn't appear that Fluidampr is trying to bias the info.

I had a fluidampr on my 2.1l ls/vtec build and it functioned flawlessly. The guy I sold it to also has not had a single issue. I plan on purchasing another fluidampr for my ls/vtec road race/DD build and would not hesitate to use them time and time again.

I believe the dampener we have on our 600rwhp/590rwtq c6 z06 ls7 road race car is a Fluidampr as well, we have not had a single harmonics issue since installing it

Snailor Built

Well, We have been emailing. I dont completely agree, Im still not saying it wasnt the damper, Im also not saying it was. The fluidampr engineer said my flywheel bolts were loose and that cause the havok in the bottom end. Personally I think it came from the other side of the crank, whether or not it was caused by the damper, again I dont know. However I am not an idiot, the flywheel was put on properly and the noise didnt come untill the damper was installed. Ivan and I are continuing to speak via email. I will share information ONCE I get some sort of positive confirmation on it.

wantboost- I have seen people make 800-1000whp on eagles hbeam rod, then ive seen people who had them go out at 550 (basically what there rated for), each scenario is different, Im glad you had a good experience with fluid, however untill I have convinced it was something else, my verdict stands on the post and yours or 50 other people vouching they use them will not make me install another one this time around..... I will take blame if there was an error on my part. However right now its " I think" , "It looks like it may be" etc etc.

ballistic1350

iTrader: (7)

Any updates?

Snailor Built

Shes down for winter. I never got a definite answer from anyone on what caused what. I "guess" it can be blamed on using the same crank pully bolt, However I have reused them 1,000's of times. So it is what it is. I will be running an ATI next season. I also sold the head that was on there and bought a RLZ head. Ill post some pics later.

bigG

iTrader: (6)

i have seen flywheel bolts come loose a few times and never caused that problem.....

ATYPR

We lost a motor to flywheel bolts backing out.

bigG

iTrader: (6)

i must be lucky then, although it was a fidanza flywheel everytime.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

If the flywheel bolts back out then that makes the bottom end unbalanced... as the motor rotates the movement of the flywheel would place extreme stress on the thrust bearings as wells as the rods, and the snout of the crank...

Depending upon what rpm the bolts backed out, that alone could cause a catastrophic engine failure like we've seen here

OP, what do your thrust bearings look like? that will tell the tale. As a loose crank pulley bolt would have little effect on the crankshafts movement, especially since the fluidampr is not only keyed to the crank but it basically has an interference fit when installed..

you could install fluidampr with an old bolt, torque it to spec then remove the bolt entirely and not have an issue... I could see the only way this happening is the flywheel bolts backing out of the crank

like I said, look at your thrust bearings and post pics. they will tell you the true story of what happened to cause the failure

Snailor Built

Every bearing in the motor was perfect, The engine only had a dyno session on it before this happened. All looked brand new minus the crank where the wheel mates, fluidampr, oil pump.

Snailor Built

Sold the crower/ITR head and picked up a RLZ head with a set of the T1 GSC cams.

HiProfile

First off, an inline-4 basically wobbles from flywheel to pulley up & down as a result of the harmonics - at least that's as dumbed down as I'll put it. Second, the wobble gets worse the further from the crank centerline.

If the flywheel was loose, that wobble would be all jumbled up - the flywheel reacts to a wobble and amplifies it after it's peak at a different crank angle. My guess is that leads to some harmonics being canceled out, while others are amplified. Imagine having to hold a vibrating 50lb sledge hammer, then suddenly the hammer begins to swinging up & down...in other words it may have taken the hand of god to prevent the pump gear damage. From what I've seen over the years, the hardened steel that make up our oil pumps isn't hard to crank & shatter.

As far as bearings looking good, the harmonic vibrations may not have been enough to break the oil film (especially if it was good oil).


In the end, I'll never be surprised when a motor blows up after it was run with *something* working as it wasn't intended. Valves "slightly" nicking the pistons at 9500 rpm, loose bolts, a "almost" clean gasket surface, etc. If you look at aviation regs, there is more time spent inspecting components than time flying. My friend who worked on attack choppers said it was a good 10:1 ratio. Imagine checking every bolt on the motor after each 1/4 mile pass and every dyno pull...

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Yea I have a friend who is an aviation mechanic. Their idea of clean is insane. They clean surfaces microscopically clean lol

But remember, a plane falling out of the sky would kill and injure untold amounts of people. Not as bad as a car blowing up a motor lol

I get what you're saying. The flat plane crank is naturally unbalanced and it only gets worse the faster the crank spins. You should see what F1 and IRL teams have to do to fight crank harmonics

Snailor Built

My flywheel was installed properly, torqued with a 600$ calibrated torque wrench. Loctite, and all of that good stuff. The issue came from the other end of the crank....

SiRCiviC94

i forgot the loctite, some people crank the flywheel bolts down without a wrench i did mine to spec. hasnt come loose in 5000 miles should I re check ? lol ive been nervous since. good info here!

Tippyman

This will probably get me flamed, but I hammer mine down with a 3/8" impact. I don't go crazy and try to strip the crank, but there's a lot of vibration associated with solid mounts and Honda's specs aren't always designed with that in fact.

If someone at the shop I work at (Honda dealership) was using torque wrench on a flywheel they'd get laughed at. EVERYONE hammers them the hell down and I've never seen an issue. Your mileage may vary.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

You probably don't torque your spark plugs to spec either, just go 'hand' tight. Half asses dealership scum.

HA! Kidding. Seriously though. Specs are made to be followed in stock configuration. I don't follow all the specs, like valve cover specs or spark plugs. I don't know that the solid mounts would cause more engine vibration, I thought it was just to the chassis. Anyways, ranting here.

Tippyman

Some things need to be torqued to spec to ensure even distribution of pressure, the correct amount of stretch on a bolt, etc. A flywheel just needs to be tightened enough that it doesn't fall the hell off.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, I follow specs when I feel like it. Like my head studs. And my cam retainers or whatever they are called. Basically the inside of my engine I cared and followed specs. But there are a lot of things I kinda ignore the specs on.

SiRCiviC94

fair enough. im glad nothing came loose i was just being **** since its a stock type r flywheel why not use stock specs. even tho the last dude who put it on used an impact probably.

Snailor Built

haha Tim I saw his original post and was like man Tim's going to go off haha. Anyways I used loctite and torqued and can promise when it goes back together its going to get a impact and loctite. Lucky if I dont weld them to my fly! :p

rich7777

Just weld them lol. You know they ain't moving then.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

you can't folow oem spec for non oem parts

spark plugs are a perfect example, oem has their own spec, other plugs are different.

I normally tighten my plugs until I crush the seal completely, which basically stops the plug from turning

MRGRIM

iTrader: (1)

on all my race cars the fly wheel bolts where wire tied through a hole in the bolt heads
and on my cruiser there is a tab lock plate under the bolts that has to be folded against the bolt head