atomx

Has anyone heard of or tried an electric supercharger? (what the hell?)
1000 cfm at a flip of a switch..............any opinions besides what the hell am i talking about?

falcongsr

sounds like a great idea. not.

atomx

.......so you've tried one..........or are you just being a post *****

atomx

....ok....ok......i'll fess up....i have rigged up a pro-toe-type that pushes about 200 cfm and it feels like a small shot of n.o. no joke.Its been on for about 2 weeks now with no problems. I'm fix'in to hook one up that pushes 980 cfm and i was wanting to see how much trash you all could come up with on it. I'm going to run it for a while then get it dyno'ed.................anything to say besides bullsh@#?

CovertFI

what are you using to suply the air. it is a damn good idea. not to practical, but i am sure it is fun to set up and use!

X2BOARD

Hey... anything's possible...

GSRwBOOST

I have one on my car and it works great.. I noticed at least 20% increase in gas mileage and my air fuel ratio works out better, and the intall was so easy..... it's powered by the cigarette lighter so it makes taking it out a breeze...

emissions legal too...

dbman96

The alternator wouldn't be able to keep up with continuous boost but if you only used it at WOT, you could pull a couple hundred amps from the battery for a few seconds at a time and let the alt. recharge it while cruising.

fsp31

An electric supercharger will *never* work. Period. The laws of physics apply to all of us...

>>>
So, how much power does it take to drive an efficient supercharger like a screw type? The most efficient type of supercharger, flowing 265 cfm and developing a boost of 11.5 psi, takes 14.5kW to drive it. Figures aren't readily available for centrifugal blowers, but they'd be of a similar magnitude. So the best blower design (the same type that's used on the Mazda 800) takes about 14,500 watts to drive it on a modest-sized engine. This power is derived from the engine via a belt connecting the blower to the engine's crankshaft.

But let's say that instead of using a belt-drive from the engine, we power the supercharger by using a 12 volt electric motor powered from the car battery. For an electric motor power of 14,500 watts, we'd need a current flow of about 1000 amps (14,500 watts divided by 13.8 volts = 1050 amps). So, to supply the current to drive an electric supercharger having the same airflow output as the most energy-efficient type currently available, it would take 1000 amps. To generate this much electrical power would require at least 8 heavy-duty alternators bolted to the engine. Furthermore, to handle this current, the wires connecting the battery to the supercharger would have to be enormously thick - perhaps brass or copper bars 10mm square would be needed.
<<<

...taken from http://www.autospeed.com.au/A_0237/P_2/article.html

BHSCGSR

http://www.turbodyne.com/products/1500.html http://www.electricsupercharger.com/

fsp31

With regards to turbodyne (small "t" on purpose) read this.

http://www.asensio.com/Turbodyne/Turbodyne3.htm

Even the stock market knows it's crap...


[Modified by fsp31, 10:24 PM 4/9/2002]

voltronR34

Where did that post of the Torocharger go? That was truly comedy.
You have the right idea blowing more air into your engine.....maybe shoot for a more tried and true method?

falcongsr

mabey not. u need sustained current to drive a motor, especially when loading it up under pressure.

falcongsr

i spent some time researching it, and determined that i couldnt come up with a feasible way to implement it.

if i just went and tried all the crap i would like to, without researching it, i would have large piles of junk everywhere...wait i might already...

92sleepR

[QUOTE]An electric supercharger will *never* work. Period. The laws of physics apply to all of us...

If the intent is purely to drive an air pump off the cars electrical system you are sort of right in that it wouldn't be efficient, too many losses in the system but here's food for thought.

Garret has been working on an idea for an OEM application of an "electric assist turbocharger" basically it works by placing a small, extremely high rpm electric motor in the center section of the turbo. between the turbine and the compressor. This system works at a much higher voltage than the typical 12 volt standard and thus avoids some of the efficiency issues. The really cool thing about this system is that it can regulate the turbine shaft speed like a waste gate in effect but it captures the "wasted" energy and stores it as electricity. It also virtually eliminates turbo lag.

This idea is similar to the hybrid gas/electric designs now in use but applies it in a diferent way. Expect some REALLY interesting technology in the coming years as these systems start hitting production.

As more food for thought consider the Honda 'Dual Note' concept gas/electric hybrid that mates a huge capicitor with a 300 HP V6 and three electric motors to drive all 4 wheels. Effectively 400 HP INSTANTLY with more torque than you can imagine. Alll actively controled by a very sophisticated computer.

Exciting stuff.

My only fear is that our "simple" piston engines will soon be totally obsolete. Who wants to bet though that some creative soul will adapt these new systems to older platforms.

So.... An electric supercharger might not be so far fetched as it sounds but believe me, such a thing will be far more sophisticated than duct taping a hairdryer to an intake tube.

Mike


[Modified by 92sleepR, 11:04 PM 4/9/2002]


[Modified by 92sleepR, 11:05 PM 4/9/2002]

dustin

I just swapped out my JRSC for one of these bad boys, I'll let you know how it all goes...

dbman96

The fact of the matter is that every turbo and supercharger company is dedicating R&D efforts to this very idea. It is most certainly possible. You can come up with ungodly high power requirements if you try to size it to increase maximum horsepower at high flow, but incorporated into a conventional turbo or supercharger installation the electric supercharger can serve to completely eliminate turbo lag at lower engine speeds, which seems a good idea to me.

csufweed

OK, the JRSC takes approximately 9.5hp to run. So, whats the equivalent of this in an electrical sense?

The fact is this idea has been tossed around for some time but there is no real way for this to work. The reason is that it would require too much stress on the alternator and battery to run an electric supercharger. the "e-ram" is just an electric fan rigged up to the end of your intake that will activate at WOT, blowing more air in... makes sense to me and it claims 5-10 hp which i can believe. however something like that other one is just way out there to me. from what i read i didnt see any cold hard technical facts to prove that it would actually provide good power and not drain your battery and blow up your alternator. As far as honda hybrid electrics, they have their own battery for one, and they recharge everytime you brake AND even on the Dualnote or DN-X the electric power only powers the front wheels... there is no 4 wheel electric motor assist on any cars. The only feasable way to use electric power to our advantage and without killing performance would be to have something like the "e-ram" which is also similar to the greddy turbo thing with electric assist to spool up the turbine. Any other way and we'll have to hook up $1000+ amps to our engine with a bunch of capacitators and a long life alternator and battery to keep the car running.

dbman96

When 42V electrical systems eventually take over, this idea will not only be feasible, it will probably become very common.

SiRkid

ahahah..some guy at my school wanted to get that 1 psi ssssoooopercharger thingy..ahaahah

csufweed

yeah some guy with an n/a eclipse used to brag about it on some ricer site i left... like it was some big deal! it looks like it would work and all, but you cant be sure about it... someone who's not a ricer wanna buy one and dyno it?

ComposiMo

Working on it (didn't buy it though)... The gentleman who designed the eRAM (Mark Kibort) sent us one for testing, and it is installed on my car at the moment, but will be transferred to another car for dyno testing in another week or so when the car becomes available. While i'm sure this is not exactly at the top of you guys' wish lists, i believe that there is some merit behind it. I look at it not as a FI mod (which it kinda is), but as a replacement for (or a nice addition to) a CAI. A cheap and simple product that can actually do something noticable for the average I/H/E guy wouldn't be that bad of a thing. By the way, the motor used in the eRAM fan is actually a stout piece. If anyone races (or used to race) R/C cars on ovals, and has knowledge about the "rare earth" magnet motors used in those high-speed velodrome cars (before they went to brushless motors) would recognize this motor immediately.

Anyway, if anyone is interested in seriously finding out how this thing does, shoot me an Email, and i'll send you info once we have gotten it dyno'd.

As a side note, Mr. Kibort stated that this thing would actually help out a turbo'd car as well... remains to be seen. Anyone in Orlando with a boosted car feel like a dyno session in the next week or two?

dbman96

For what it's worth, I also got one of these e-rams for testing related to a school project. didn't have a dyno, but used a Race Performance accelerometer based system (more accurate G-tech with datalogging) and doing several back-to-back runs with the E-Ram on and off, averaging results, I found that the accelerometer must have been accurate because my runs were very repeatable, but the E-Ram didn't show a HP or Torque increase under any circumstances except for a brief hiccup right at VTEC crossover of about 3 hp increase.

Just to add to the discussion, I am currently employed by a company called Electronic Boosting Systems, Inc. which has aquired all intellectual property of Turbodyne Systems after mismanagement led Turbodyne into the hole. I can say that the technology is viable, I have spent the last month or two testing and refining the Turbodyne units on a flow bench, and intend to install and dyno test an initial production model on my GSR, both with and without my turbo installed. I honestly expect this to be a real winner in allowing turbo cars to run MUCH larger turbines with no increase in spool time. We all know that a nice big turbine will give more HP, but we don't want to wait until 4500 RPM for boost. Well, what if you didn't have to choose one or the other? I'm certainly willing to find out how it does. I have at my office a dyno plot of a 1.8L turbocharged car that gained 50-60% torque from 1500-4000 RPM with the Turbodyne system installed. I'll obviously keep everyone posted as this progresses.

ComposiMo

dbman96, Interesting result you have there. I'm still not "totally" convinced that this thing really does anything other than make a bit of noise when i stomp on the pedal, but i don't like to knock something before i've tried it, so i'm going into this with a semi-open minded approach ;-) But, even though Mr. Kibort sent this thing to me to test without asking for payment, he knows as well as i know, that results will be posted... good or bad. If the product is a wash, then i'll be damned if i'm gonna keep it a secret.

I DO however see how using these kinds of things at a lower rpm would be more beneficial than using them in higher rpms... such as what you are working on. Please do keep us (or at least me... hehe) posted as to the performance of the project you are working on.

csufweed

awesome, if you wanna test a product a show me its validity... im all for it. someone test that tornado crap while you're at it... just for the hell of it! you never know... you may get the 35 hp it claimed... maybe not.