wantboost

iTrader: (2)

if you enter the KTS address directly in your address bar it takes you to the site. someone did a clever redirect for the google search results

Those look like the turbochargers used on large locomotive engines, they are actually coupled to engine so the engine can absorb the shaft power being generated by the rotation of the turbo

95_EG_B18C1

iTrader: (2)

6262 hands down.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Hahahaa.. 62 pieces of junk is more like it.

B20VtecVillain

Lol I think Precision is a little better now than they once were. The gen 2 6262 have been getting good customer reviews for drag cars. I would never use one of their units on a road race car or any sort of endurance build, but the new ones can atleast hold together for 10 or so seconds at a time of hard use lol.

B20VtecVillain

Garrett > Precision all day every day though. My GTx3076R was light years better than my buddies 5858 on a similar engine and I would Always choose a GTX35__ over a equivalent Precision unit as well.

ls joker

whys that

ls joker

Care to explain between the gtx3076r and your buddies 5858. since you use the term light years

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Ah where to begin..... :-)..

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

The reliability of Precisions journal bearing units is still questionable at best.
Their ball bearing CHRAs seem to be fairly problem free... If you exclude the occasional compressor wheel flex/distortion issues.

ls joker

obviously outside reliablitiy. im talking strictly performance on the last qoute

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

But see, that's the thing. Reliability is a more than prominent reason to avoid these abominations. Otherwise, why continue with all the disapproved head-shaking and laughter of a lot of the CXRacing and EMUSA turbochargers in the first place?

Reliability is part of the performance advantage. This is why Precision doesn't bother with Enduro, WTAC, Indy, F1, and LeMans..... Because they can't

And you wonder why people believe that turbos that last 4-5 years is such an amazing feat. *snicker* In Garrett and Borg-Warner world, even in the performance division, 5 years is a complete walk in the park. Many have had the same ball-bearing CHRA for over 10 years. OEMs have Garrett's running over 150,000-300,000kms. From Saabs to Volvos.

As for the Performance advantage outside of reliability (which is not mutually exclusive), the build quality of the internals of each design is completely different between the two companies. Yes, Precision has had fewer problems as of late. But what you don't understand ls joker, is that Precision has been chasing demons for years, knew what those demons were, and did nothing about it, until enough consumers saw the patterns, and weren't going to accept it anymore. Even then, they didn't fix them all.

The air-cooled CHRAs were only the tip of the iceberg. Unless you're a 1969-1974 VW beetle or Karmann Ghia, (which don't run water-cooled engines that utilize a radiator) Air-cooled isn't enough. As a result, cracked ceramic *****, warped cages, and other issues were just rampant.

*sigh* this is getting long-winded.

Then you have the thrust bearing material content and ball-bearing cage systems that still plagues them even now. Again, to be fair, there is improvement in the Gen2s, but not by much.





And we won't go into the turbine wheel explosive issues that they suffered in 2012-2013 that destroyed several Pro-mod cars. In fact, it was so bad, that Hruska not only had to find a new foundry that could improve their turbine housings, but was so stumped, he was forced to ask Garrett, their former business colleague, for help..with which Garrett told them to kick rocks.

The turbine housing issues were so bad, since Precision put themselves EVERYWHERE it required a change in the SFI rules to where ALL performance turbochargers in SFI divisions had to run Turbine Containment Devices, which hadn't changed since 2000 (SFI Rule sheet section 61.1 new rules):

Honeywell Certification rules SFI 61.1

They now all have to look like this:

Garrett


Precision


So that you don't get this




Now, as for power potential, even AZ_CIVIC showed that with the right combinations in a standard journal bearing CHRA, that the power capability for a 62mm Garrett, (902whp & 6XX wtq on a modified 62mm?... you wanted POWAA, right? )and knock a Precision out of the park without the worry of compressor wheel flex at high boost pressures that Precision suffers.

To be fair, Precision has improved; but only because they were forced to improve. Because of their hold on the industry from aggressive marketing campaigns, specialized restrictive use of turbochargers in certain drag racing divisions, (Precision would be the ONLY turbo company allowed to be run in cars that were in Pro-Mod turbo class divisions and NHRA divisions) and brand loyalty to the point of fanaticism (think GM car Detroit fanatics) despite their issues, and its no wonder they're still kings in the turbocharger performance market.


So, I'm done.. This wasn't supposed to be a rant about Precision Turbo & Engine. They took a good thing, got big... ruined it.. came back with their billet stuff, big marketing.. blew things up.... created a fan base, kept it.. and still screwing up, just not as much....

So, ls joker... I ask you.. what good is performance, if it blows up for garbage reasons...?

*Whew*... How does Wantboost do this **** on a daily basis?

ls joker

I've definitely never been a precision fan. i like seeing, reading, and feeling close differences between units. everyone knows precisions reliability blows. this is merely bout expressing the performance differences. atleast for people like myself who havent sampled an infinite amount of units

nevermind, realistically, they shouldnt even exist in the thoughts of people with thoughtful work into their build

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Understood. But fapping over a bunch of dyno comparisons is honestly, "child's play". Getting turbo quality and best "performance" is looking at all 4 sides of the cube.

Dynos make for great entertainment, speculation, some useful data analysis, and even troubleshooting, but for us readers its just the one side that looks the tastiest.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

In the end any turbocharger will make power. It's just how much, how efficiently, and how long that differs.

For the most part the physical size of the wheels limits power, regardless of who made the turbo. There's only so much air that can be moved at any given time for a particular compressor size. The aerodynamics of the wheel determine how efficiently the compressor wheel imparts work on the fluid being moved (in this case air) and the profile and inducer/exducer relation of the turbine wheel determines how the exhaust gasses impart their energy on the wheel/shaft.

There are a lot of factors in terms of aerodynamics and honestly if I posted even one of them 99% probably wouldn't get it. Ultimately aerodynamics is what tends to set "production" turbos made by each company apart.

After that comes how the wheels are paired up. Basically what size compressor wheel is matched with what turbine wheel.

Then there's the CHRA bearing system design, housing sizes, etc.

I could get much much more in depth but for the terms of this particular thread I can't really justify it. If people want to know more about what goes into wheel designs and aerodynamics I would be more than happy to throw some kind of thread together along with a little help from Mac... As I don't know *everything* about that but I know enough to understand how they relate in terms of wheel performance.

ls joker

never said anything but dynos. testimonials are what im looking for. maybe times slip or track time comparisons. inducer and blade aero

ls joker

outside noobs, and people who bought not built their car, this is already known.

however, i do believe some of that post is sticky worthy

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

That's what we're doing. Giving a particular turbocharger that people like Because of their use or performance. Hell, maybe just a simple wish list, and why. Track time comparisons and "slips" have too many other variables to account for besides the turbocharger.

Back to the goodness. Turbo eye candy, testimonials, and historical references. Save the "slips" for the drag racing forum.

I'm so sick of the Precision crap, I'm honestly debating about deleting my super long post just to be done with them as a point of contention. But I knew it was going to come up sooner or later.

Geis

But you shouldn't, it was entertaining to read. I by no means am saying that you are wrong about anything in that post, but I've been meaning to ask you for so long the same question. I only ask because

A) In extraordinary amount of tuners run precision, if you go on youtube and check out thatracingchannel or 1320 vid nearly every single god damn person runs a precision, and these are on builds that obviously have a lot of money in them. This goes without saying, surely these are the fanboys that precision somehow managed to establish.

B)Among these 'nobodies' who run precision on their xxxxhp supras and whatnot, there a few very respectable people who insisted on running precision on some of their builds. A few shops that pride themselves with titles and engineering expertise, my personal favorite tuner of all time Frank Profera (I admit I'm mostly only dick riding his latest project though, it epitomizes his lifetime of experience and perhaps one of the best builds on the road today imo), and even around here we D-rob running it on his stock k20 build. I don't think any of these people deserve scrutiny for their competence on creating insane builds except for perhaps some of the shops I've seen running precision, perhaps they're sponsored.

C) A bit of an afterthought; with all of the above and the blatant trashing of precision by some here in the honda community, it can only make a person wonder who the f*ck really knows what they're talking about if you know`m sayin`. It would be like all the top bodybuilders (all with insane physiques) being split down the middle on the use of creatine - some say it's worthless **** others swear it's how they got big (bad analogy, I know)


Thanks for clearing up your judgmental (and justified) attitude towards precision, it'll be curious to see how things progress.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

What few will tell you is they sell Precision simply for the money. Given their popularity it only makes sense that people would be looking at the profits to be made.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Comments are in blue of course.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Ok. Back to the fun here. I hate that this thread died.

My next favorite is the T.M.E Evo 6.5 RS 16G.

ls joker

i thought wantboost was ranting bout that. and talkin bout using it on one of his builds. if not,
whys this one also so special to you. dont have time to look it up, bout to go to work.

ls joker

haha i remember way back from grand turismo 3 the video game, they had a tme evo on there lol

exgr

Sitting on 10 of TR30 or 10 of Evo 6.5 TME?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Wantboost doesn't come on H-T anymore since his new endeavors. Thanks for bumping the thread to start this back up, as it's been a while, but don't expect a reply at any time.