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i just buy they,for 300-400hp is very good way to go! and for what you whant the turbo gt2871r is very good choice! sorry for my english))
I have this, but with 11:1 cast pistons. It's awesome! Sorry, I would not have dropped compression unless you are drag racing. If you do not live in the upper end of the RPM band, high RPMs only, there is no point on dropping compression on a tiny motor like this.
I have this, but with 11:1 cast pistons. It's awesome! Sorry, I would not have dropped compression unless you are drag racing. If you do not live in the upper end of the RPM band, high RPMs only, there is no point on dropping compression on a tiny motor like this.
Too much power loss for my liking.
thanks whit my head c/r will be 9+ and will be good! in my contry is a problem whit fuel,is not soo good so all turbos here must dropp compression! and i dont want go whit metanol
thanks whit my head c/r will be 9+ and will be good! in my contry is a problem whit fuel,is not soo good so all turbos here must dropp compression! and i dont want go whit metanol
Ah, great reasoning. If our fuel was not good, I would do what you are saying. Good thought
thought this mite help with you decision the 35r will make great power but will take time to spool the 3076 is perfect with good mid & high end power since b16 love high rpms just my .2cents
Hopefuly I've found something intresting for the turbocharger here in my city. I'll go this week end to see the turbo ! Hope to Make a good deal! I'll keep you guys updated. It is a td0516g6 with "only" 28k miles!
good to know but you have more cc than me by your side! I'll see how much the guy want for this 16g. It is very hard to find something good and at a good price around here. The good point is that I can actually see it!
Hoping that all will be right, I have a question for the exhaust manifold. Since I want to take advantage of the twin scroll, according to your experiences do you guys think that it is better to modify a b16 manifold or an Evo one?
I run a T3 super60 on my b16a in my time attack race car - I wanted super quick spool, meaty midrange, and enough flow to not die too much at high rpms and it delivers well. Full boost by 3000-3200rpms and holds power to redline.
The super60 has a really similar turbo flow map to the gt28rs at 1/3 or 1/4 the price - think 90% of the performance for 25% of the price.
So basically you guys think that I should go with something a little bigger than the 16g6? I re-established my goal at 250whp (I don't know if in the first or second page). As far as I know this turbo can go to 350whp if squeezed properly and with a good engine build (bottom end) and as shodan told me via pm too.
I know that I have to fab a manifold from zero, but it will be fun!
this turbo is good for you manifold better to buy from ebay an evo manifold and just modify the part that seet on head! manifold like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/CXRacing-11-Gauge-Manifold-Lancer-EVO-VII-VIII-IX-7-8-9-4G63-Evolution-TD05-/121380392860?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c42d5cf9c&vxp=mtr
Probably I'll fab a New one from zero. Unfortunately I have to wait next week end for the turbo, because I had a surgery last week and I cannot move without assistance by now... Is taking more than it should.... Btw keep posting guys info are always appreciated!
Finally I got it, I didn't paid it yet because it was bolt on the evo 8 manifold, so I picked it up for inspections. I'll post some pictures, can you guys help me ? it has a very low shaft play on the compressor side, like 1mm, 0.5mm on radious, I think that's normal but I'm not a turbo expert. Almost no play on the exhaust wheel.
ok so finally I got it checked by a racegaragelab here in my city, they said that is fine and the price for it is good. I paid 350$ without wastegate actuator.Considering that is without shipping costs and custom, I think I made a good deal.
I hope that it will works good even if I recieved a lot of criticism from friends saying that it is too small for a b16... but based on an oem compressor map that I found online and some math I did, I'm quite confident.
(hope that this is the correct one!! :D :D )
You can't take an evo manifold and just change the head flange. The cylinder spacing is entirely different and won't even come close to working. Only choice is to build a custom manifold to fit motor. A couple of companies offer manifolds that fit the evo 4-9 twin scroll turbo on a b series. Regardless look to spend 550-800+ for a quality manifold.
The 9.8 turbine housing is going to hurt you a bit by limiting high rpm power. The b series vtec heads flow leaks and bounds more than the 4G63 heads. At the minimum you need to port match the turbine inert to the flange. The housing inlet tends to be quite smaller than the gasket So buy port matching you increase the flow and efficiency of the exhaust system. Also it makes the housing slightly larger in respect to the aspect ratio. Also smooth out the casting as far into the volutes as you can get as well as the turbine outlet. The castings tend to be rough and by smoothing them out you increase airflow slightly and reduce turbulence within the housing that can lower efficiency.
Also is your turbine housing a single flapper or double flapper in regards to the wastegate? I'm assuming it's a double since the 9.8 housing was only used on the earlier evos. The single is better at controlling body levels since the wastegate passages are a bit larger and creates less turbulence due to the port design. You definitely need to enlarge and port the wastegate outlets. Even though the original application has larger displacement the B16 has a higher volumetric efficiency, higher head flow, and also turns higher rpm thus negating the displacement difference. Porting and engaging the wastegate outlets week obviously increase the amount of exhaust gases that you can bypass, making it easier to control pressure but by putting and blending the areas where the wastegate ports meet the volutes you decrease the turbulence the port creates and also make it easier for exhaust gases to make the sharp turn towards the wastegate outlets
Thanks for your suggestions! Yes the guy who sold me the turbo, has kindly lent me the oem evo manifold just to see what's different once placed on the head.... It is totally different so I have to fab a new one.
For the wastegate, what do you think about an external one ? I didn't understand what you mean for single or duble flapper?
Thanks for your suggestions! Yes the guy who sold me the turbo, has kindly lent me the oem evo manifold just to see what's different once placed on the head.... It is totally different so I have to fab a new one. For the wastegate, what do you think about an external one ? I didn't understand what you mean for single or duble flapper?
Internal wastegates have a "flapper" on the inside that acts as the exhaust bypass.
One has a single flapper like below (the better one)
And a double flapper like below
There's no need for an external wastegate with your setup. It simply isn't needed. The turbine housing has an excellent wastegate design and at the pressures you plan on running is more than adequate. Don't complicate things with an external, especially since with a divided manifold you're really supposed to run two. Trying to one run can make plumbing the wastegate hard and ultimately causes one pair of runners to wastegate more or less exhaust than the other.
The one thing I absolutely suggest is picking up a Turbosmart wastegate actuator. The stock one is so so and can have performance problems at higher boost pressures. Just like an external you can change the springs inside the actuator for any number of base pressure levels, a feature unique to Turbosmart.
ok thanks for the pictures!! I think I have the one flapper set up (I'm going to check btw)
Since I'm a boost noob, I thought that the external set up probably would solve the high rpm power limitation.... But maybe for my goal the porting you mentioned should be fine.
Moreover looking from an economical/fabrication point of view, it is even better for me to keep the internal one.
wastegate style has no effect on power whatsoever. If boost pressure is stable both will make the same power. The only thing that would effect power is if you divorce the wastegate or merge it into the downpipe.
what will limit power is the turbine wheel size and turbine housing size. Typically the turbine wheel will choke before you reach the 42lb/min limit of the wheel. People step up to a larger 18g wheel to make slightly more power but you still won't be able to fully take advantage of the larger wheel. Once you reach the limit of the turbine wheel the only option is step up to a larger td06 based turbine wheel. However on a 1.6 you should be fine but if you're trying to reach the upper limits of the turbo you'll definitely need a 10.5 housing.
If you place the turbo high enough you can use a pre-fabricated evo o2 housing. Here's my 10.5 housing and stock o2 sensor against my y8 block to give you an idea
However more than likely the turbo will be mounted lower thus requiring a fabricated downpipe. MAPerformance has nice flanges for the evo turbo. You want to get one with a round wastegate outlet that the backside (turbine side) has been machined and pocketed for increased flow. There are also similar flanges available on ebay that are nice quality. If you get the kind that are simply cut off of the factory gasket the shape will make forming a piece of pipe to fit the flange an absolute impossible bitch.
Since the turbine housing already divorces the wastegate from the turbine wheel I would keep it divided unless you just don't want the noise. Typically on internally wastegated turbine housings used by Garrett, Holset, etc. it's an absolute pain to truly divorce the wastegate but you don't have that problem here. Also with the turbo mounted low it would make routing the wastegate back into the downpipe a bit tricky as the merge needs to be at least 18" from the turbine housing outlet to ensure a turbulence free merge. So you'd have to run the wastegate piping under the oil pan and merge it under the pan.
to give you an idea, in a test done with an external wastegate that merged back into the downpipe immediately and abruptly (90* to exhaust flow) after the turbine wheel was tested vs a divorced wastegate. The divorced wastegate made on average around 30 more horsepower over the poorly merged setup. A properly merged wastegate would't have anywhere near the power loss over a poor merge but would only be a few hp down over a divorced setup
I'll try to find a build thread where the guy ported his 9.8 turbine housing just to give you an idea of how much material has to be and can be removed
12-09-2014, 09:30 PM
re: Cabletie's B16A2 Mitsubishi 16G6 Turbo Project Build
whit my head c/r will be 9+ and will be good! in my contry is a problem whit fuel,is not soo good 
so all turbos here must dropp compression! and i dont want go whit metanol
