TomCat39

Hey guys, I was wondering what your opinions are for the top brands for the various hand tools used in engine building.

For example, I have been researching Dial Bore Gauges and was surprised at the expense of "Dyer Gage" brand. They sent me a quote on one of their 220 series with some information and they claim to be the most accurate in the world. And for the price they quoted without an indicator, they darn well better be.

Anyways, I suspect Dyer Gage is one of the all time top measuring tool manufacturers. The one gauge with an indicator likely cost more than my car. I know the handle was quoted at 2/3 of what I paid for my car.

What other brands are considered worth the expense?

Here is one of the information sheets I was sent about their 220 series bore gauges:


Or the PDF I was sent if you prefer:
Section A 43.pdf

So what are the best hand tools you use or your shop uses?

efHondefender

mitutoyo, brown and sharpe, peacock, starrett, sunnen to name a few quality brands

Mitutoyo makes a reasonably affordable dial bore gauge set. Usually, around 3-400$ for the range that you would need

PyroProblem

I think Fowler is pretty decent too.
FYI I picked up a Mitutoyo vote gauge for $150 in like new condition. I'm always keeping an eye out on Craig's list and eBay for good deals on tools I need/want.

I think the one you listed may be overkill as far as precision for most. Usually .0001" is all you need.
But then again, you can never be to accurate!

TomCat39

Very well could be.

Being quoted at $841 USD for the handle and no indicator seems like it better be the most accurate thing in the world.

And to think, they also expect you to buy a master to set it with.

Here is the other sheet they provided that has a bit more on the capabilities and the various model in the 220 series:

Section A 42.pdf

PyroProblem

Yeah way overkill IMO.
And that $842 doesn't include the indicator?

efHondefender

If you're gonna spend over a grand, get a sunnen bore gauge. Sunnen is pretty much the standard for bore gauges in just about every automotive machine shop in the USA.

TomCat39

Yeah but does that mean they still are the best of the best?

Just like Snap On used to be the best of the best but has since been topped by other manufacturers on certain tools.

I suspect the Dyer Gage might be the new top dog if you are spending that kind of cash.

I'm poor and just learning so I shelled out 65 bucks for a Chinese manufactured (aliexpress) one that I plan on getting my 0.0001" 0-1" Dial indicator to work with. I'm hoping the mouth is already .375" (3/8") but even if it's .315" I'll see what a 3/8" drill bit will do for widening the mouth a whole .060".

That way if I mess it up I'm only out 65 bucks.

KMS tools in my town has the Mitutoyo Bore gauge for 329 with indicator but at the moment, that's more than I can swing for the initial dabbling of a hobby.

Once I know I want to continue this hobby I will likely be looking for the best tools I can attain so as to maintain and acquire solid quality in my work.

On the flip side though.... It's interesting to know that most machine shops look to Sunnen. Almost seems like they haven't heard of Dyer or something is or was amiss with Dyer? Or Dyer is newer and so has to manufacture far superior to get established....

efHondefender

well, I can tell you that a Sunnen bore gauge is about 10x more stout than the one pictured above. Anything more accurate than 0.0001" is completely unneeded. It's damn near impossible to hone a block to anything better than 0.0002" variance. Especially, if you want to have a good cross hatch without burnishing the hatch out. You would think that a Sunnen gauge would be pretty much best case scenario since the bores are made and honed 99.9% of the time using a Sunnen hone. (CK10 or the like).

https://www.goodson.com/GA-2121-GA-2...l-Bore-Gauges/

Pro-SeriesFab

The most "over-priced" tool I would buy again is the LSM valve spring compressor.

Worked at a IHRA pro stock shop for a little while and they had one there so I immediately bought one after using theirs

The acme thread makes it easy to compress 600-800# springs on the seat.

A little too big to work on our honda stuff but still works with the SOHC heads I've taken apart.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lsm-sc-2000/overview/

PyroProblem

This just came in today. I think it's a good investment for $115 to measure your bearing half thicknesses. I don't think you can accurately measure it directly any other way.
Unfortunately it has a "made in China" sticker on the case but it still seems pretty decent quality. Haven't used it yet, just scrolled the thimble through its range a few times and verified 0. .0001" increments.

PyroProblem

That Sunnen is pretty nice. It does appear to be more stout. Too bad that it doesn't go down under 2 inches so you could do rod bores as well. I guess it would make sense that the tool your using should have a little weight to it. Give it a more solid feel and a steadier handle on things maybe?

Here is a nice set of Mitutoyo micrometers for what I "think" is a reasonable price I saw on CL. $300 and .0001 accuracy.Too bad I don't need them or I'd be all over that!
Mitutoyo .0001 Carbide Micrometer Set ONLY 299.99

TomCat39

What do people think of shars?

I was looking at their 6 micrometer set for 130 dollars if I recall, then the 0.0001" 1.4-6" bore gauge was 188 bucks or so and then they had a super long 20" 2-6" bore gauge but I think it was 0.0005" for another 150 bucks or so.

All made at an ISO 9000 and ISO 9001 establishments they say.

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blackeg

my machine shop uses a sunnen gauge. id love to get one but for the 2-3 motors a year i build i went with a cheaper fowler. its pretty solid in itself and my biggest issue is how im currently setting it with my dial calipers. are there any dial calipers out there that have a .0001 or even a .0005 graduation to them or should i go with a mic set?

Pro-SeriesFab

We use shars a lot for parts that don't have to matter . . . lathe toolholders especially, magnetic bases, dead blow hammers, punch sets, etc. Just bought a small Grade A granite table from them that looks really good.

We also just recently tried a couple of er32 mill toolholders for the Prototrak DPM given it's RPM is limited to ~3000. The quality and fit is superb although it would make me a little nervous to use even the balanced ones in the 10,000RPM fadals.

Maritool is like $15-20 more for a collet style toolholder, is made here in the US, and carries a lifetime warranty. Not really worth it IMO to skimp on something that is spinning and needs to be accurate.

efHondefender

You need a 3-4" mic. Just find a good used Mitutoyo on Craigslist. That's what I did. I think I paid $75 is I remember right

efHondefender

All fowler stuff is made in China as far as I know. That said, I have a fowler 1-3" mic set and it has always done the job. That said, that said, I also have a Mitutoyo 1-3" mic set and it has a smoother/nicer feel to it.

jdmconcepts

the sunnen bore gage is a work of art however it still uses a mitutoyo gage because the increments of .0001 is all you will see in automotive block work, but its the body that makes it special.It keeps heat out allowing you to get more repeat ability from you post hone measurements.The Dyer gage is designed more for aerospace manufacturing where every micron counts based off blueprint specifications. i used to use it at cnc manufacturing company that made parts for a company that builds the Rohmer cmm measuring arm .

TomCat39

That's awesome to know.

Thank you for all of the clarification!

Each has it's purpose and now we can see why most machine shops go with the Sunnen Handle and what the Dyer Gage is aimed at.

jdmconcepts

In all honesty the Fowler sets are good entry level sets. SPI also make decent sets maybe take a look at those if you are pursuing a hobby. No real need to get to crazy with equipment unless you are having that equipment pay for itself through jobs. We use all top of the line equipment and tooling because our clientele is counting and paying for precision. we all started with lower end tooling and had to gradually work our way up. Basically if your only going to use it maybe twice a year then you might not need the best of the best unless the money tree in the back yard is in full bloom. On a side note i have personally seen and other professionals on here can vouch that the best tools are absolute garbage in the wrong hands.Ii have seen people measure a whole .001" difference from me only because they are not used to using high resolution equipment.

scook179351

Also remember to get the 3" standard for setting the mic. otherwise, you have no idea if the mic is correct or not. Even a new one needs to be checked before using.

Dial calipers are only good for about +/-.005" actually. Measuring to .0001" is not going to happen with any caliper that you buy. You should have mics to set any type of bore gauge that you would be using.

ef92b

I've had Fowler mic sets and dial bore gauges for almost a decade now. I say they're pretty precise.

Next to it are Mitutoyo dial gauges, calipers to double check things when in doubt.

Here's the latest pieces I've purchased recently. Mitutoyo spherical face type tip mic. I had been wanting to have one of these till one day i had to bite a bullet and go for it. It's the lab certified piece which is a bit more expensive than the non certified ones.

Also seen is the Starrett contact point set with #4-48 screw thread. I use these tips along with the Fowler dial bore gauge's display unit as they have identical tip screw threads for interchangeabilty. Quite useful specially on tight areas to take measurements from.