lude98SH

Well this will be on an h22a4 block and head with a euro r IM and TB. The head will be ported and polished. My question is in regard to boring the TB and runners. Im not sure what size to go to and what will benefit me the most because i know that plenum size, runner length and size and the size of the TB all effect intake air velocities but im not sure what will make the most power for my application.

GoldLudeRay

i would say have the tb slightly inlarged and and have the im ported or extrune honned

JDogg

the plentum on a euro r manifold is too small for an h22, so you are gona need the biggest throttle body you can get on there. we picked up 17hp by switching from a 60mm to a 68mm tb

98vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the plentum on a euro r manifold is too small for an h22, so you are gona need the biggest throttle body you can get on there. we picked up 17hp by switching from a 60mm to a 68mm tb</TD></TR></TABLE>

on what kinda build?

JDogg

12:1 mahle pistons
weapon r header
euro r intake manifold
3 inch short ram
jun3 cams


but on my current motor, stock usdm 98 long block.. my logs show me that i need something bigger than my 62mm throttle body

Rosko

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">12:1 mahle pistons
weapon r header
euro r intake manifold
3 inch short ram
jun3 cams
</TD></TR></TABLE>

how much power did that end up making?

JDogg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rosko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

how much power did that end up making?</TD></TR></TABLE>

227 on RLZ's dynapack with all the valves bent

DCFIVER

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the plentum on a euro r manifold is too small for an h22, so you are gona need the biggest throttle body you can get on there. we picked up 17hp by switching from a 60mm to a 68mm tb</TD></TR></TABLE>

But didnt it come on an H22?? Do you mean it was inadequetly designed??Or only inadequet as far as aftermarket performance goes?? First I've heard of this...

UK_Luder

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

227 on RLZ's dynapack with all the valves bent</TD></TR></TABLE>

So what's the story behind that?

JDogg

the euro r plentum is actually smaller than an ITR plentum.. its been proven with custom manifolds that h22 needs a bigger plentum. its a big motor it needs a big plentum.

and rule of thumb is, small plentum needs a bigger tb

the 227 on rlz's dynapack was on the orignal set of 12:1 mahle pistons they gave us to test. turns out they had the valve reliefs in the wrong spot which bent the exh valves just enough to start to clip the intake valves, so all 16 valves were bent

mgags7

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rosko &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how much power did that end up making?</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">227 on RLZ's dynapack with all the valves bent</TD></TR></TABLE>

for comparisons sake, I made mid 180s on the RLZ dynapack....

Look at the birdman's 250whp(on their dyno) h build that brad made a custom IM for, the plenum is almost twice as big as a stock h22 plenum, which is bigger than the euro r plenum.

98vtec

so how can you tie this in the the IM volume theory with the plenum being 60% the size of the engine?

mgags7

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98vtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so how can you tie this in the the IM volume theory with the plenum being 60% the size of the engine?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Simple. I can't. LOL

One thing I can say is that maybe since the runners are so huge you need a bigger plenum....

I think to flow as well as john's (the birdman) IM does with runners like the Euro-r, you wouldn't have such a big plenum.

Its odd that the skunk2 manifold doesn't make better power, it seems to be a lot like the euro-r runner-wise, but the plenum appears slightly bigger.....

DCFIVER

So why does the Euro-R make more power than the Stocker??. Because of the runners???

mgags7

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cb7-R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So why does the Euro-R make more power than the Stocker??. Because of the runners???</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would say so, they're not huge velocity-losing honkers of runners, they're narrower and longer, and give good velocity, so I think thats why the euro R makes better power up top, anyone else have input?

Rosko

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mgags7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I would say so, they're not huge velocity-losing honkers of runners, they're narrower and longer, and give good velocity, so I think thats why the euro R makes better power up top, anyone else have input?</TD></TR></TABLE>

the Euro-R runners are the shortest out of the three and I believe Scott mentioned in one of his threads that the Euro-R actually flowed the least. I agree its the velocity of these runners that is whats making the power and not the flow, but when does the smaller runner of the Euro-R start to become the bottleneck?

mgags7

Sorry for the misinformation, thanks

I wonder also though, because I've never seen a real huge build use a euro r IM

JDogg

im not convinced that the euro r makes anymore power than a stocker.. the only thing i can draw from my experience on the dyno is that the euro r will carry the power further out in the rpms than a stocker, but not make more power... it just dosnt fall off as hard. the tq curve is generally a good bit flatter with the euro r, but less of it.

DCFIVER

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im not convinced that the euro r makes anymore power than a stocker.. the only thing i can draw from my experience on the dyno is that the euro r will carry the power further out in the rpms than a stocker, but not make more power... it just dosnt fall off as hard. the tq curve is generally a good bit flatter with the euro r, but less of it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So why do you suppose Honda put it on their upper end "performance "version of the H22??

JDogg

because it makes for a flatter power band in the upper rpms. my motor still has good power to 8000 rpms, more suited to "R" car from honda..

Rosko

iTrader: (1)

I'd almost think that a reworked stocker would be the next best thing when the Euro-R manifold became inadequate. I think it would take getting rid of the iab plate and cutting the plenum deeper into the runners (removing some of the middle webbing to effectively shorten the runner to a Euro-R length while having the slightly larger flowing capabilities of the stocker's runner.

I have a manifold I'm gonna try this with someday, but its a ways down on my to do list.

DCFIVER

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">because it makes for a flatter power band in the upper rpms. my motor still has good power to 8000 rpms, more suited to "R" car from honda.. </TD></TR></TABLE>
So then it's likely that you sacrafice some low end torque for this right?? But since VTEC and upper rpm power go hand in hand then it does its job ,correct??