rmcdaniels

I picked up a set of these recently:







I've been told I can't run these on a daily driver with big cams because it will tear up my VTEC rocker pads, but could I get away with it with OEM cams like CTR or ITR cams?

rmcdaniels

P.S. - I'm not concerned about drivability, just about longevity.

smokey2.0

were those shaved on the bottom? if so why? btw take a scale and weight them and the stock ones, and post your findings!

rmcdaniels

They sometimes have clearance issues, so they were shaved. I think Brad from RLZ weighed them, here's the results:

Rocket

The process of installing cams with the VTEC locked is "scary."

ATS*Mark

i bet people have cracked a few bumbsticks in the process lol

vti444

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocket &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The process of installing cams with the VTEC locked is "scary."</TD></TR></TABLE>

im havin this done within next few weeks, very few people do it but been told its "proper" way to install cams. no idea myself but any info would be greatly appreciated

DonF

Why? lumpie idle? less TQ below 6000RPM?

Rocket

Why is that. I thought the rocker arms made mad torque?

DonF

Rockers, maybe, VTEC lobe only, I do not think so, but you allready knew that.

PocketRockets Racing

This might not be related, but it is in a way.
Why not use the crane/ferrea roller system if you wanna run on the vtec lobe all the time?
I haven't tried it on a smaller motor, but the 100mm stroke H27 idles at 1100 rpm, albeit lumpy, which is cool....lol.... with multithrottles and 272 @ 0.050"valve lift roller cams.
it does turn heads......people go WTF is in that thing? lol

Seems to be reliable.
A waste of gas and emisssions in alot of ways, but no worse than a chevy with a lumpy cam....lol
less strain on the valve train.

Just voicing some thoughts and ideas

Fkned

Probably because the PG rockers are at least 1/3 the price of the Ferrea set-up.

rmcdaniels

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ed’s Racing Heads &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Probably because the PG rockers are at least 1/3 the price of the Ferrea set-up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bingo, I picked these up for $140 shipped. If I can't use them, then I'll sell them. I was actually thinking of using these on a boosted application with some stock Honda cams, but I figured this forum would have more cam/rocker knowledge. Brad's already told me not to use them with N/A cams because they will eat the VTEC rockers rather quickly, but I was wondering if they'd be okay with some stock cams. I'd love to try the Ferrea/Crane roller rocker/cam setup, but it's pretty expensive.

As I understand it, the reason to use them is to substantially reduce the valvetrain mass and to get rid of losses from the LMA's.

matt k

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rocket &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The process of installing cams with the VTEC locked is "scary."</TD></TR></TABLE>especially with big cams and big valves every thing has to be perfect when you tighten the cams down or you get that nice ping sound from the valves. don't waste your time with these on the street the bad out ways the good pretty much the only reason i run them is because it saves time setting up the motors not for power don call me your phones suck

1 2 NV

ive got em in my car and it idles ok. it took quite awhile to get it idling correctly. eventually we got it. it starts harder which is what i would expect out of something running on the VTEC lobe all the time. if you have any questions about installing them just call brad. its a very simple setup. i had never done it but it didnt phase me to try. i ran the car successfully all year and only checked valve lash 1 time and it was still within specs.

rmcdaniels

What cams did you use?

1 2 NV

im still stuck with JUN 3s. been in my motors for around 4 yrs now.

rmcdaniels

Do you know the specson the JUN 3's?

MAX_CFM

Learn the hard way Go for it ...

1 2 NV

i only remember VTEC specs. i think both intake and exhaust are 305 degrees duration 12mm lift intake 11.5mm lift exhaust 110 degrees centerlines. DonF prolly knows exact specs, i believe those were JUNs posted specs.

Used2beAb16

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1 2 NV &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im still stuck with JUN 3s. been in my motors for around 4 yrs now.</TD></TR></TABLE>

let me tell u... everyone feels so bad for you!!

rmcdaniels

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MAX_CFM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Learn the hard way Go for it ... </TD></TR></TABLE>

That does seem to be my pattern. Or I may just say screw it all, sell these, and get that Crane/Ferrea roller rocker/cam setup. That's about two grand, but it looks better than the PG setup. I'll have to see when I get my profit-sharing bonus next month.

slofu

a few Qs:

being that so much valvetrain mass is eliminated, what (rate) valvesprings are recommended? iirc, at least regarding using his cams with the stock rockers, Brad said that at he prefered the RM gen 1 outers (alone). using these PGs might allow you to run softer springs, since they no longer need to push back the heavier non-vtec rockers, although they no longer have the lmas to help.

also, if they do accelerate wear, and you want to try only using a stock cam to compensate, it might rev faster with less valvetrain mass, but there are cams which have small lobes nearly the size of stock vtec lobes, and much larger high lobes, which will likely make considerably more power (and accelerate the car better), overall.

has anyone ultimately made more power on a b series using crane/ferrea roller setup on a setup otherwise the same using the common shelf cams and valvetrain?

i think that len tried the toda vtec killer setup, which seems to be the 'proper' way of eliminating vtec, and even got it tuned to idle normally (with itbs) with P1 Jack's help. it was impressive, but i'm pretty sure that he said that it wasn't really worth it; the standard setup seemed better. of course, every engine is different, and perhaps a better grind could have been made for the same style cam... .

i can't say that for what you paid for the PG deal, that i wouldn't be tempted to try them, myself. however, the things about which i wrote above would concern me.

DonF

If you get the Crane rollers, you will have to get cams ground for them.

PocketRockets Racing

I have crane roller cams in stock....lol
I think Don means that the regular slipper style cams we know of do not work with the crane roller setup.....am I accurate?

Why not just use regular vtec cams?
I am fully aware of the "weight" thing, but for streetuse?
for high rpm, of course, the lighter, the better.