SoHc94

ive got a gsr 82mm 11.6ish:1 according to zeals calculator.
b16 pistons on gsr crank and rods.
i/h/e
tuning on crome.
weve got the afrs dialed pretty well to 13.2s. But how much timing can they usually take on 93 shell. that is all i ever run and only run shell.

This is what it looks like. I understand the tune timing on the dyno. but im really just wondering if im like way off and have mroe i can throw in and still be in the safety.
any input?

DDTECH

Crome's timing values are tricky - They aren't always accurate.. not as accurate as ectune or neptunes.

at wot, you'll probably want no more then 30* at wot.. but i suggest you start to worry about timing "After" vtec.. i wouldn't adjust the low end timing unless you were on a dyno.. learn how to read plugs and watch your afr as you make.. "small" adjustments.

DDTECH

I'd take out timing before i add timing..

Highlight the last three columns and make a pull -
Make sure your AFR is steady at w/e your shooting for, i'd actually shoot for 13.0~12.9ish AFR -
After the pull, add 2*'s and make another pull, if your AFR leaned up, your making power.. if it went rich, your too advanced and probably are denating and can't hear it. so retard it back -


IF you retard your ign and you start to lean out, add more fuel..i wouldn't run any less then 26* on your motor and no more then 30.

SoHc94

ohkay gotchya. and when u say no more than 30 are u saying at the very bottomr right corner? or is there possibly timing to be had earlier in the rpm. vtec is at 4800

SoHc94

also why is the timing really low in that vtec area? where its green

2k.civic.si

MBT - minimum best timing....the least amount of timing that makes the most power....you need a dyno to adjust it correctly. Dont worry about the number....its just a number.....start off around 24 degrees and slowly work your way up overlay each graph from each pull on the dyno and you will see where it wants timing and where it doesnt....remember the tq curve follows VE

SoHc94

yeah if i can get on the dyno id be doin that. this is just a simple street tune were doing and i for the most part was wondering if i could safely just get alittle out of it and mabye a pointer on where. my midrange is sluggish. thats why i wanted to see how much i can adjust timing before i need to be on the dyno. i dont need a ton of power. just know if im at the point of as good as it gets on the street. i feel like mabye 6021-7007 in the b10 column should take a little more mabye. jw. thats where the motor kinda falls off a little.

2k.civic.si

its impossible to tell without a dyno....you can try more timing it will just start to ping before it starts to knock....i wouldn't go over about 32 degrees though. Most n/a cars ive tuned were in the range of 24-32 degrees at wot (on gasoline....alc/meth cars were different)....every motor is different....

K7-1Ktrevor

actually mbt stands for maximum brake torque. you can also tune timing on the street if your careful. I just ad a quarter of a degree untill it quits using more fuel, its tedious but I don't have access to a real dyno and don't trust many local tuners.

SoHc94

ok so start adding timing in these areas? and see if it uses fuel. if its not going lean then back it off till it richens just slightly.
if it goes lean then add fuel, then add timing and do another. untill it stops going lean and then back it off a little?.
the last 3 columns starting at 5000 on. except sort of keep the 7500 on kinda the same. since its already up there.

2k.civic.si

Well i just double checked my efi 101 work book and it is telling me that MBT = minimum best timing.

PyroProblem

I always thought it was maximum brake torque, but a quick search yielded several definitions including "minimum best torque".
Either way, I think we can all agree on what it means. The maximum amount of torque at a particular rpm on a dyno...

IMO, tune the a/f's on the street and ignition timing on the dyno.

DDTECH

Using a p30 ign basemap - and smoothing it out should be advanced enough - if anything you'll have to take out timing from wot areas.
The p30 ign maps are the most aggressive ign maps next to the EDM's bins.