doubleoughtcrv

Hey hondatech, tryed searching my *** off but most everything I found doesnt answer my question. Usually about all out builds or b20-v's. Or top end power goals, all out builds ect. Anyway heres my goal and a break down of each specific area I plan to change and what I plan to do.
Low end and mid range power on a b20z crv awd. I plan to slightly lift it (1-2", yes i know how). And toss on a slightly bigger tire. Im watching weight, so oem rims and lightest (firestone AT) tires will be used.. I commute up and down the Cajon pass daily and would like a little extra power without having to stomp the pedal to move. It currently all stock with a fresh tune up & valve adjustment, so I know with slightly larger tires it'll be worse. Does ok now, but could be better for sure.
I am staying non-vtech. No turbo/superchargers. Overall smog compliant..small things usually go unnoticed anyway,
My ideas are basic, let me have your opinion and all knowledge is welcomed. Advance timing and run 89-91oct (not a problem). But wheres a safe# or range of timing advance?
Secondly cam gears, to help adjust/degree cams into a more usable power range. 2500-4500rpm. Redline is 7500?, but it shifts around 6800-7000rpm unless you manually shift. But I'd like to gain power in my driving range...more part throttle power. Basically 2500-7000rpm or so.
Possibly crower 401-t (yes turbo cams) or 402s, also degreed into my driving rpm range. The 401-t were my idea, because they have less overlap, thus keep valves closed longer..bigger stronger explosion, more complete fuel burn, less revision..yadayadayada... should net more mid range than 402s maybe less top end (6000rpm +) though...which isn't an issue. If theres better options let me know.

I have a s2k twin loop muffler with a 38mm "uk mod" on it. Quiet, yet free flowing enough. I plan to keep the factory mid-pipe and resonator and do a 2.25-2.5" collector and cat. Remember not all out power here..yes the stock mid-pipe may hurt me slightly.
The oem manifold is 4-2-1 so I don't see much benefit buy a 4-2-1 header and modifying it to fit (awd). Whats really going to be gained unless I spent money on a decent replica? I feel maybe a couple horsepower...not sure its worth the added cost ($100-150) plus fab time and hassle of modifying to fit. And a good rep is $200+ and again, still needs modifying, although it'd probably gain more.
Will a ebay/dc 4-2-1 be any better than a stock manifold with a modified 2.25-2.5" collector welded on?

Intake wise I actually am contemplating going back to the girrafe intake (long runner) from the current resonator chamber style. Idk if it'll gain power in the range I'm looking at. I want to say it will, while sacrificing some top end. Others say keep current manifold its better...but again I'm after a certain rpm range. Aftermarket isn't out of the question if its useful to my build overall. A ported stock manifold seems better though?
For intake I plan to just modify the factory box slightly. Again I'm sure this isn't the best overall but it functions and I don't see the need the added noise for the slight power increase here.
Throttle body...is a larger really needed? I dont' mind but if its wasteful money spent then theres no need.
With all this done, a simple vafc or safc II for a quick and simple tune to optimize everything and I'd be done.

Overall, cams & tune/fuel controller will be the biggest cost. Should easily be under $800 dollars to complete. Yes I weld, yes I'm mechanically inclined. But this is my first honda...or 4cyl. And my specific goal is a bit different than when most guys modify their stuff lol.
I came from a xj (jeep) with a 4.6l stroker (self built) gears locker ect.. Different worlds lol

Crv is 100% daily, mild offroad. Firetrails really, nothing crazy. The freeways aren't its strong point...any climing seems like it needs 3rd gear, which is why I'm after a little more power. As well as summer Big Bear trips...climbing that mountain loaded down is gonna suck lol.
Anyway let me know you opinion, spread your knowledge. Bounce your ideas out and help me get my plan together.

Thanks in advance for your time guys,

93egSLEEPER

For your goals the proper transmission will be a key factor. I strongly recommend at least a GSR tranny. Check out some B20 non vtec build threads and see what others have done. If you end up wanting easier power and going down the vtec path there are plenty of build available with lots of info (including mine)

Ultimately youre after torque w/ a lift and larger tires. $800 budget is going to be tough to get much out of a B20 without a vtec head.

doubleoughtcrv

Well 15whp or so with cams, tune, basic bull ****. I dont think thats "hard" on a 800 dollar budget. More power would be great, shift said power to the left side of the graph would be better.

Trans swaps and vtec heads arent an option. I have an auto rt-awd. No other trans option while retaining awd without going 5 speed. Same for vtec head. As far as i read and found out, theres zero ecu options because mine also controls the trans.
So minor upgrades to optimize the power in the correct places and adding some small power overal is the goal. Im not expecting a rocket ship lol.

And again ive look high and low. Most b20 builds are top end, max power on n/a type builds. Even budget "top end" builds. Nothing at all that I have found has shown what I'm asking.
I know basics and what I'm after is somewhere along the correct line. But advice would be helpful.

Im certain the cam gears and slightly larger bump sticks will get me what i want...power in a more useable range...

dntnedvtec

Start by deciding how healthy your engine really is. Leak down test/compression test can determine either rebuild or you can start adding go fast parts.

doubleoughtcrv

I will so a comp & leak down this weekend. But its healthy, no leaks, no smoke. It's not a "weak" motor issue. More of a I'm used to 300+ftlbs of inline6 power at most any rpm.
Never needed to kick a gear to get it moving.
The crv, is just different and needs some help. Cruising the cajon it'll hunt a few times between 3rd and overdrive. It'll drop a gear to stay at 70, then shift back to OD,
...and on and on. I feel with just a bit more power this wouldn't be so bad. Same with cruising up to big bear, more power always makes things easier lol.

Anyway, going to keep looking. I've search builds and **** and most I see are pushing 7500-8000rpm and make good gains over stock...but the majority of that is up top.
I think with the basics I posted, and tuning. Especially tuning cam gears for more low-mid range out of cams would be what I'm after honestly.

93egSLEEPER

unless you find a bunch of screaming deals on used parts, doing cams will cost you $1500.

Cams, valvetrain, tune, gaskets/seals, machine work..... it all adds up quick.

Which is why I said GEARING will play a pivotal role. I understand you're used to "low end torque" from a 6 cylinder.....you just won;t have that with a Honda. They rev...

whitesihatch

^^x2.

I suggest you change the gearing. However if youre dead set on cams, theres a guy in the classifieds selling some bc stage 2 brand new for $150.

doubleoughtcrv

Cams WILL NOT cost 1500 lmao. Even my is300, installed, bc 264s with cam gear was under 1000 lol and cams were 720 alone.
Crower a are under 400, gaskets another 40. Valvetrain is safe with either 401 or 402s lol. Imay be if you on pay shop time and labor it'd cost 1500, and if you thought I was planning on that the I guess you missed where I said I built my last motor lol. More than comfortable doing installs.
Cams are not 1500. Yes gearing would be the best option overall, but it's physically not an option because the trans.

93egSLEEPER

You don't get it. And I always laugh when a "noob" asks for input then shoots it down. Why did you make a thread? Many of us have 10+ years building these cars/motors, we don't just blow smoke.

Cams-400
Tune-300+
ECU to tune-150+
Cam gears-100+
Gaskets/seals/fluids-50-75+
Other misc costs-100+

I don't see how this can be half *** done right for under $1000. Nothing ever costs what we 'think' it will. If you can do it, great.

Feel free to run aftermarket cams on old tired springs and retainers. Not my build. You know it all apparently.

I'll leave you alone now, my advise is clearly a joke.

doubleoughtcrv

Well first out your ego away. Id assume by your signature your not a child so don't act like one. Secondly no all "noobs" are clueless. Obviously its a 4cly 2.0, of course its going to have to rev. But because its a 4cyl doesn't mean it can't make more power in a more useable range. And by useable, I mean useable to MY goals. I don't expect to idle around with neck snapping power. I clearly stated a range of 2000-6500rpm. Cruise is around 3200rpm.
My post clear states its a auto awd, and that I will be retaining that feature, in that case there's no transmissions or gearing change available. If it was a normal fwd, then yes I could swap, but that's not the case. So yes that piece of advice was useless and if you read what I originally posted thoroughly I doubt you would of offered that advice.
Your advice wasn't a joke, just ill advised. I had some specific questions you skipped over, that I'm sure you could of given honest opinion on. And instead you gave me normal hot dog answers that most "noobs" receive by decorated long term members.
Go search & look at b20 builds really serves me with very little...most guys are building for top end. Not for a specific range like myself. I said this once. So looking at such builds, which I've already done, hasn't helped me much. Although it has give me ideas which is why I made this thread for more concrete advice.
Obviously I asked pretty aimed questions with specific locations/concerns so I could see what may or may not be worthwhile.
Yes I agree gearing is huge. 4.56s form 3.07s in my xj. 4:1 from 2.72:1 in the tcase. I know good and well what gearing can do, it's just NOT an option. I'm not out "crawling" my crv lol. Just mild offroad, like I said, firetrails and some dirt roads. Mainly to get for the day and go shoot. Hence tires geared towards that terrain.
And just to be clear post cost merits nothing on ones knowledge. And it's not that I think I know everything like you stated, it's just you post useless info that helped me in no way, pertaining really to nothing I questions about. If you had had given me info I asked for and I disagreed, then I see your point. But I posted some topics of concern and I'm assuming you glanced through, saw a new account and gave basic answers. Let's get past that.

Now, gearing is taken competently out of the equation, lets not go back to it. Back to my original questions.
Cam wise do you know of a better lower end cam. I suggested a 401-t for less overlap compared to 402s..however adjustable cam gears kind of make that a moot point anyway. And both are more than safe in a 6500rpm limit on stock springs. Mileage is noted as well, and it could be a concern & I feel more than safe doing it. I'm pushing 6500rpm and hardly that as I don't intend on flooring this, tapping limiters or anything of the sort. I'm looking into gaining part throttle, mid rpm range power.

Some of the builds I looked over gain decently in the 3000-5000rpm range. And have huge gains up top, 5000-7000rpm range...I'm looking at maximizing the lower range is all.
For the rest of my questions. I'm guessing a basic 4-2-1 won't merit much over a stock 4-2-1 with a modified collector? And going to a decent rep, that would still need to be modified obviously won't be worth it'll, considering cost to the gains.
Timing advance is basically free, I asked a general acceptable range?
Any knowledge and advice on the girrafe manifold vs my current intake manifold? Maybe even aftermarket that'll help in my desired range?



And your cost break down, I agree with some of it. But a basic safc/vafc fuel tune won't go for 300. The unit itself will run about that 150 or so though. So budget wise, although its a basic goal, not all I have to spend anyway...
Would be 300-400 for cams, 100 for cam gears seems about fair. Fluids and a oil change..Ill bite at 75 bucks. Safc/vafc for 150. Tuning one isn't hard, although that'll warrant a wideband, which adds cost, so I'll leave that to a shop or knowledgeable individual...I'd say maybe 200 tops. Talking simple fuel maps, maybe 4 runs? Pi had my jeep tuned via a map adjuster, and that's all a vafc/safc is. A glorified map adjuster, manipulating voltage to add or subtract fuel.
Even with unexpected hiccups or added cost. I see that being around 800 quite honestly..mShopping for used parts, although I'd buy new cams either way, would help stay within the price I posted as well. And again that's not a set price or goal.

OneBadTurboCRV

The problem is you started this thread in the wrong sub-forum to begin with.

Also, how in the world is effective gearing out of the question? Ever heard of smaller tires? I assure you, they work WONDERS for CRVs. Even 1" smaller makes a big difference... 2" smaller even more so. Your speedo won't be off but probably 5mph depending on how much smaller you go.

Smaller tires would allow for a stock engine and avoiding all the BS that comes with modifying one. You won't loose much ground clearance either, but I understand that you might desire for every inch possible as there isn't much to begin with (even if you max out the stock suspension with lift kits). IMO, tires would absolutely be the most cost effective and reliable choice you could make.

doubleoughtcrv

Well n/a motor section. I asked n/a motor questions. What would be the correct sub forum?
And I've dealt with a lifted crv before. I know what to expect. And gearing is out of the question, in now 2 scenarios. Firstly by trans swap, again no auto option while retaining crv's "awd" feature that I know of or have found.
And now secondary by tire size. I will be going slightly larger to, although I'm talking 205/75. Not a huge difference. But I won't be going smaller for sure. Which is why I'm after a few simple things.

PSI GUY

iTrader: (2)

H2b, easy to find used kits and the engines are cheap. I've seen a few h2b crvs and they are awesome, way better engine for the vehicle weight.

PSI GUY

iTrader: (2)

Now everyone will want one.....

OneBadTurboCRV

Nah, get with the times man... he claims to be the first K-swap, but it's been done before just not well documented:

https://honda-tech.com/honda-element...-list-3266704/

Pretty sure this thread is a lost cause. Have fun OP, good luck.

doubleoughtcrv

I've checked this video out a few times. Pretty cool.

doubleoughtcrv

I feared this thread would go this way lol. But that appears to just be honda tech. Tryed searching, seems best to just keep the factory manifold. A girrafe one I can probably get for next to nothing if I ever want to try it anyway.
And guess I'll be searching some more info on the. 401 vs 402s. Cam gears will help shift the power around....stupid to even ask if I already knew, just figured it'd be worth the opinions.

PSI GUY

iTrader: (2)

Rocket motorsports did some non vtec b20 cams and made really good power. Check them out on facebook, you'll have to scroll for a bit, but here is the info.


Rocket Motorsports
December 26, 2014 ·
186whp/162tq--B20Z (stock bottom end) with RM 240/224 duration camshafts. S2 ProSeries IM, 70mm TB, stock airbox, Mugen 4-1 header, 2.5" test pipe, stock head Supertech valves.

doubleoughtcrv

I did read about those actually. But would those end of be more suited for top end? 7000+rpm?
I know this crv will shift around 6500-6800 when in drive at WOT. so I've been aiming for cams that aren't to wild.

I Did also see a set of 400-2 cams, discounted from crower.. Never found info online about them. I'm going to call them right now and see what I can find out.

doubleoughtcrv

Crower closed until the 4th.
Anyway was looking at both these 400-2 which are discounted decently.
Acura Camshafts - Camshafts

And the 401-2.
Acura Camshafts - Camshafts

However I didn't find cam specs in their catalog on either cam. Any chance anyone has the specs for them?

blackeg

with the single profile cam, the power will be made up top with a sacrifice to low and mid range. what you really need is an increased compression paired with a small to moderate cam. that will accentuate the low and mid range the most. dont waste money on any cam smaller than a 402. also you should run the p75 intake manifold the others are not nice to low to mid range power ive had a set of those brian crower st2's. they were good but the power didnt really come on until 4800 rpm according to my dyno graph.


what you really really need is a small turbo(t3,16g, etc) setup running a few psi like 5 or 6 . what it will do is spool quick and make great increases in tq over 200 ftlbs to the wheels right in the 3000-5500 rpm range.

larger tires will ruin your gearing which is quite counter productive to an all motor setup

96ekb20

read the 15 second auto teggy thread i wrote up in the drag racing section the teggy my brother in law owns went 15.1 with very minor mods. you want tq only way to do so is add compression read the build and youll love driving your crv afterward his car still got 36mpg after i tunned it. also i dont think your ecu controls the trans i beleave your car is like the auto integra which uses a seperate tcm in the drive side kick panel by the hood pop. if thats the case again that mod is addressed in the write up i did as well any question you have pm me or you can txt me 530781-2923 im here in cali. im a b20 for life person and im anti v tec as well

96ekb20

i would be all over these if i was you but down side to the bc stage 2 over the crowler 402 is valve lift which he doesnt want if he wants to get away with stock springs and if he wants tq hes gone want lower lift more duration

bigG

iTrader: (6)

Blackeg hit the nail on the head.... only proper response to this thread