Stitch welding the chassis - When is it necessary?
04-12-2004, 07:41 AM
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Stitch Welding Chasis - When is it necessary?
Hey guys! I'm just wondering if anyone here is familiar with this practice and if anyone can give me some info on it...
What exactly is being welded/re-welded together?
When is it necessary for one to stitch weld their chassis? I know some of you guys are running some very stiff spring rates and I'm wondering what the limit is on the spring rate you can safely run without having to do any welding to the chassis to ensure its rigidity.
If there is anything else that one must know about stitch welding the chassis, please feel free to go ahead and post it up! Thanks a lot for your help guys!!
What exactly is being welded/re-welded together?
When is it necessary for one to stitch weld their chassis? I know some of you guys are running some very stiff spring rates and I'm wondering what the limit is on the spring rate you can safely run without having to do any welding to the chassis to ensure its rigidity.
If there is anything else that one must know about stitch welding the chassis, please feel free to go ahead and post it up! Thanks a lot for your help guys!!
04-12-2004, 07:48 AM
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Re: Stitch Welding Chasis - When is it necessary? (EKology)
04-12-2004, 08:02 AM
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Re: Stitch Welding Chasis - When is it necessary? (El Pollo Diablo)
Good link! Thanks man!
This pretty much sums up what I was asking about...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Seam welding just reinforces the connections between the OE pieces of sheetmetal, providing more weld area and therefore more resistance to cracking. It doesn't make the shell enough stiffer that anyone will notice in most situations. If one were using really high spring rates on a road racing car, the instantaneous loads might be high enough to warrant seam welding but it's not legal in many classes.
It makes NO sense on a street or track car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
So I guess what I'm wondering is what is considered a really high spring rate?
And also, is there any alternative to welding that would provide similar results? I saw someone had posted some sort of Panel Bonding Adhesive, but don't care already come with adhesive on there from the factory?
This pretty much sums up what I was asking about...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Knestis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Seam welding just reinforces the connections between the OE pieces of sheetmetal, providing more weld area and therefore more resistance to cracking. It doesn't make the shell enough stiffer that anyone will notice in most situations. If one were using really high spring rates on a road racing car, the instantaneous loads might be high enough to warrant seam welding but it's not legal in many classes.
It makes NO sense on a street or track car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
So I guess what I'm wondering is what is considered a really high spring rate?
And also, is there any alternative to welding that would provide similar results? I saw someone had posted some sort of Panel Bonding Adhesive, but don't care already come with adhesive on there from the factory?
04-12-2004, 08:11 AM
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Seam welding and spot welding are different.
Seam welding is illegal in many classes while spot welding is either legal or illegal -- since that's how the sheetmetal are connected together from the factory.
Seam welding is illegal in many classes while spot welding is either legal or illegal -- since that's how the sheetmetal are connected together from the factory.
04-12-2004, 10:18 PM
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Re: (Wai)
Got it, thanks Wai!
But aside from it being legal/illegal is it necessary to keep my car in one piece? Say for example if I were using...oh I don't know, maybe 16k Front, 12K rear spring rates? *cough* should be here in 2 weeks *cough*
But aside from it being legal/illegal is it necessary to keep my car in one piece? Say for example if I were using...oh I don't know, maybe 16k Front, 12K rear spring rates? *cough* should be here in 2 weeks *cough*
04-13-2004, 09:03 AM
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Re: (EKology)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKology »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">16k Front, 12K rear</TD></TR></TABLE>
Holy understeer!
Those rates are not high enough to be worried about.
Holy understeer!
Those rates are not high enough to be worried about.
04-13-2004, 09:10 AM
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Re: (EKology)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKology »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Got it, thanks Wai!
But aside from it being legal/illegal is it necessary to keep my car in one piece? Say for example if I were using...oh I don't know, maybe 16k Front, 12K rear spring rates? *cough* should be here in 2 weeks *cough*</TD></TR></TABLE>
What suspension (jdm im guessing, most are 14/10, 12/8, or similar front bias, etc) are you getting?
But aside from it being legal/illegal is it necessary to keep my car in one piece? Say for example if I were using...oh I don't know, maybe 16k Front, 12K rear spring rates? *cough* should be here in 2 weeks *cough*
</TD></TR></TABLE>What suspension (jdm im guessing, most are 14/10, 12/8, or similar front bias, etc) are you getting?
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04-13-2004, 10:01 AM
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Re: (Reid)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reid »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Holy understeer!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I was affraid of that...
What would you suggest to help remedy the understeer, Reid? I was thinking of running a Comptech rear sway/tie combo, with the thinnest front sway I could find.
Holy understeer!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I was affraid of that...
What would you suggest to help remedy the understeer, Reid? I was thinking of running a Comptech rear sway/tie combo, with the thinnest front sway I could find.
04-13-2004, 10:06 AM
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Re: (EKology)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKology »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Say for example if I were using...oh I don't know, maybe 16k Front, 12K rear spring rates? *cough* should be here in 2 weeks *cough*</TD></TR></TABLE>
Cough cough
Kunem estrants
Say for example if I were using...oh I don't know, maybe 16k Front, 12K rear spring rates? *cough* should be here in 2 weeks *cough*
</TD></TR></TABLE>Cough cough
Kunem estrants
04-13-2004, 10:26 AM
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Re: (EKology)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKology »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I was affraid of that...
What would you suggest to help remedy the understeer, Reid? I was thinking of running a Comptech rear sway/tie combo, with the thinnest front sway I could find. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Run 12/16k...
or 16k/12k, big rear bar, and play with toe/camber settings and run staggered tires.
I was affraid of that...
What would you suggest to help remedy the understeer, Reid? I was thinking of running a Comptech rear sway/tie combo, with the thinnest front sway I could find. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Run 12/16k...
or 16k/12k, big rear bar, and play with toe/camber settings and run staggered tires.
04-13-2004, 11:26 AM
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Re: (Chris N)
I'm thinking of maybe changing my rates to either 16k front, 14k rear with a beefy 26mm Mugen rear sway, or 16K front, 18K rear? I'm getting confused already lol. Any input on these rates guys? I guess what I'm after is the least understeer and best overall balance.
And a big thanks to Chris N for helping me out via PM.
And a big thanks to Chris N for helping me out via PM.
04-13-2004, 06:19 PM
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Re: Stitch Welding Chasis - When is it necessary? (EKology)
Don't seam weld your chassis. Besides, most tardknockers don't even know how to properly seam weld. You don't just weld up one giant long bead. And yes, it would illegal in all but the craziest (read: expensive) classes for racing.
Warren
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04-13-2004, 06:24 PM
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Re: Stitch Welding Chasis - When is it necessary? (Warren)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Warren »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't seam weld your chassis. Besides, most tardknockers don't even know how to properly seam weld. You don't just weld up one giant long bead. And yes, it would illegal in all but the craziest (read: expensive) classes for racing.
Warren</TD></TR></TABLE>
Also not even worth it for the rates you have. Maybe in the 20's or.. higher.
Chris - who likes the word - tardknocker.
Warren</TD></TR></TABLE>
Also not even worth it for the rates you have. Maybe in the 20's or.. higher.
Chris - who likes the word - tardknocker.
04-13-2004, 08:45 PM
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Re: (EKology)
12k front and 18k rear is what a lot of road racers use..... It's a good starting place, and somewhat loose for a daily driver..... Just don't forget how it's set up while you make a left hander through a light in the rain behind some old lady in a volvo wagon.....
04-14-2004, 06:44 AM
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Re: (Black R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Just don't forget how it's set up while you make a left hander through a light in the rain behind some old lady in a volvo wagon..... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Two fingers out the window, counter steer, redline second gear and watch the crowd roar.
Thanks a lot for the input guys! I think what I'll do is stick with the original rates and see how it feels, if I want a stiffer rear I'll toss in some 14k springs and see how that is. Worst case scenario, take them off and send them away to get them totally revalved and re-done with new rates.
Modified by EKology at 8:00 AM 4/14/2004
</TD></TR></TABLE>Two fingers out the window, counter steer, redline second gear and watch the crowd roar.
Thanks a lot for the input guys! I think what I'll do is stick with the original rates and see how it feels, if I want a stiffer rear I'll toss in some 14k springs and see how that is. Worst case scenario, take them off and send them away to get them totally revalved and re-done with new rates.
Modified by EKology at 8:00 AM 4/14/2004
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