Starting To Plan out Motor Rebuild
06-28-2007, 06:06 PM
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06-28-2007, 11:02 PM
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Re: (Doostur)
It all depends on what PSI you're going to run daily. I ran 15psi daily and made 500whp with a similar setup.
As far as cams go, I'd stick with 2000 ITR cams and leave it at that. Keep them degreed at zero. So there is no need to waste money on cam gears. Don't forget to upgrade the valve train. The OEM retainers and springs will be insufficent.
I'm not sure what size turbo you have decided on, but I used a T3/T67 with a .63 A/R. I was at full boost in the mid 4K RPM range. This was more due to the back door setup with the Full-Race kit. Very efficient. Though driving the R, I felt that if my turbo was any bigger, it would be a serious waste of a good transmission as I would have to shift too damn much. The R gears are short enough. For fun, you may want to throw in an LS 4th and 5th gear to make better use of the turbo. You will be making gobs of power.
The clutch looks good. I'd go with an Exedy. I had a stage three clutch with a three puck unsprung disc. Worked fine. No kidney jarring launches and was quite pleasent DD'ing.
That's all I know for now until you post up some other issues. Don't rush the build and prepare to spend lots of money.
As far as cams go, I'd stick with 2000 ITR cams and leave it at that. Keep them degreed at zero. So there is no need to waste money on cam gears. Don't forget to upgrade the valve train. The OEM retainers and springs will be insufficent.
I'm not sure what size turbo you have decided on, but I used a T3/T67 with a .63 A/R. I was at full boost in the mid 4K RPM range. This was more due to the back door setup with the Full-Race kit. Very efficient. Though driving the R, I felt that if my turbo was any bigger, it would be a serious waste of a good transmission as I would have to shift too damn much. The R gears are short enough. For fun, you may want to throw in an LS 4th and 5th gear to make better use of the turbo. You will be making gobs of power.
The clutch looks good. I'd go with an Exedy. I had a stage three clutch with a three puck unsprung disc. Worked fine. No kidney jarring launches and was quite pleasent DD'ing.
That's all I know for now until you post up some other issues. Don't rush the build and prepare to spend lots of money.
06-29-2007, 07:55 AM
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well i want to run at least 18psi daily. im going with a small turbine to keep lag down to a minimal. im still reading up ont eh differences between small and large turbo's and a/r's. im going with a t4 turbo just dont know what one just yet. im only going to run 18psi thats it. witha 2L bottom end will be fine output. Valve train i have already got from my decision to fully biuild the motor. Complete Jun Valve Train with guides. Still looking at valves from ferra.
06-29-2007, 11:18 AM
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Re: (cltitus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cltitus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well i want to run at least 18psi daily. im going with a small turbine to keep lag down to a minimal. im still reading up ont eh differences between small and large turbo's and a/r's. im going with a t4 turbo just dont know what one just yet. im only going to run 18psi thats it. witha 2L bottom end will be fine output. Valve train i have already got from my decision to fully biuild the motor. Complete Jun Valve Train with guides. Still looking at valves from ferra.</TD></TR></TABLE>
T4 and small turbo dont belong in the same sentence. dont focus so much on "I wanna run 18psi...." Instead focus on the amount of power you want to make. 18psi on a 16G and 18psi on a T4 are two entirely different things. it sounds like you have quite a bit to research.
T4 and small turbo dont belong in the same sentence. dont focus so much on "I wanna run 18psi...." Instead focus on the amount of power you want to make. 18psi on a 16G and 18psi on a T4 are two entirely different things. it sounds like you have quite a bit to research.
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06-29-2007, 11:23 AM
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Re: (cltitus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cltitus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks for the info
already got full size alum koyo</TD></TR></TABLE>
a full size is really going to limit your options as far as the exhaust manifold is concerned.
already got full size alum koyo</TD></TR></TABLE>
a full size is really going to limit your options as far as the exhaust manifold is concerned.
06-29-2007, 04:53 PM
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Re: (RTW DC2R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
T4 and small turbo dont belong in the same sentence. dont focus so much on "I wanna run 18psi...." Instead focus on the amount of power you want to make. 18psi on a 16G and 18psi on a T4 are two entirely different things. it sounds like you have quite a bit to research. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
a full size is really going to limit your options as far as the exhaust manifold is concerned. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Pretty much. I know from personal experience that a full size radiator with a Full-Race equal length manifold will NOT fit. You will need to go with a 1/2 Civic radiator. Another thing to consider is mounting the fan on the opposite side of where it normally goes. Due to the size of the down pipe you will run a risk of melting the fan shroud.
T4 and small turbo dont belong in the same sentence. dont focus so much on "I wanna run 18psi...." Instead focus on the amount of power you want to make. 18psi on a 16G and 18psi on a T4 are two entirely different things. it sounds like you have quite a bit to research. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RTW DC2R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
a full size is really going to limit your options as far as the exhaust manifold is concerned. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Pretty much. I know from personal experience that a full size radiator with a Full-Race equal length manifold will NOT fit. You will need to go with a 1/2 Civic radiator. Another thing to consider is mounting the fan on the opposite side of where it normally goes. Due to the size of the down pipe you will run a risk of melting the fan shroud.
06-30-2007, 01:52 PM
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well if i have to part with radiator ill probably go with a vieston half size civic race radiator. used one before kept it pretty cool. im talking with full race right now on a custom turbo build but im still wondering what i want to hit.
one other thing is i know i have to upgrade the injectors so do i have to get a fpr since i live in california i really dont want to but if i do have to ill have to do some custom stealth install make it look stock so i dont get in to much trouble.
registration wont be to muhc of a hassle since i dont have to pay for it anymore
one other thing is i know i have to upgrade the injectors so do i have to get a fpr since i live in california i really dont want to but if i do have to ill have to do some custom stealth install make it look stock so i dont get in to much trouble.
registration wont be to muhc of a hassle since i dont have to pay for it anymore
06-30-2007, 01:57 PM
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Re: (JjuuN R)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JjuuN R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why do you want to run 18psi daily? Just asking for more headaches IMO...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Agreed.
To the OP...do you plan on beating EVOs everyday?
Agreed.
To the OP...do you plan on beating EVOs everyday?
06-30-2007, 02:43 PM
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Re: (Haleiwa-Brando)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Haleiwa-Brando »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It all depends on what PSI you're going to run daily. I ran 15psi daily and made 500whp with a similar setup.
As far as cams go, I'd stick with 2000 ITR cams and leave it at that. Keep them degreed at zero. So there is no need to waste money on cam gears. Don't forget to upgrade the valve train. The OEM retainers and springs will be insufficent.
I'm not sure what size turbo you have decided on, but I used a T3/T67 with a .63 A/R. I was at full boost in the mid 4K RPM range. This was more due to the back door setup with the Full-Race kit. Very efficient. Though driving the R, I felt that if my turbo was any bigger, it would be a serious waste of a good transmission as I would have to shift too damn much. The R gears are short enough. For fun, you may want to throw in an LS 4th and 5th gear to make better use of the turbo. You will be making gobs of power.
The clutch looks good. I'd go with an Exedy. I had a stage three clutch with a three puck unsprung disc. Worked fine. No kidney jarring launches and was quite pleasent DD'ing.
That's all I know for now until you post up some other issues. Don't rush the build and prepare to spend lots of money.</TD></TR></TABLE>
1. WRONG!!! PSI has nothing to do with it. PSI doesnt break engines! I always wondered how this mis-information got spread around....
2. WRONG!!! cam gear tuning has shown to provide big gains on a turbo setup!
3. WRONG!!! Stock valve train is fine as long as you keep stock rev limit and stock cams, which have made big power.
4. WRONG AGAIN!!! The itr tranny is fine depending on what kind of driving. Depends on driver habbits.
Im disapointed in the R forum...usually has some great insight
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cltitus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">heres the link\
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2028001</TD></TR></TABLE>
Looks like you have just researched the most expensive parts you can find. You dont need a twin gate setup for 500whp amoung other things. Keep up the research.
As far as cams go, I'd stick with 2000 ITR cams and leave it at that. Keep them degreed at zero. So there is no need to waste money on cam gears. Don't forget to upgrade the valve train. The OEM retainers and springs will be insufficent.
I'm not sure what size turbo you have decided on, but I used a T3/T67 with a .63 A/R. I was at full boost in the mid 4K RPM range. This was more due to the back door setup with the Full-Race kit. Very efficient. Though driving the R, I felt that if my turbo was any bigger, it would be a serious waste of a good transmission as I would have to shift too damn much. The R gears are short enough. For fun, you may want to throw in an LS 4th and 5th gear to make better use of the turbo. You will be making gobs of power.
The clutch looks good. I'd go with an Exedy. I had a stage three clutch with a three puck unsprung disc. Worked fine. No kidney jarring launches and was quite pleasent DD'ing.
That's all I know for now until you post up some other issues. Don't rush the build and prepare to spend lots of money.
</TD></TR></TABLE>1. WRONG!!! PSI has nothing to do with it. PSI doesnt break engines! I always wondered how this mis-information got spread around....
2. WRONG!!! cam gear tuning has shown to provide big gains on a turbo setup!
3. WRONG!!! Stock valve train is fine as long as you keep stock rev limit and stock cams, which have made big power.
4. WRONG AGAIN!!! The itr tranny is fine depending on what kind of driving. Depends on driver habbits.
Im disapointed in the R forum...usually has some great insight
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cltitus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">heres the link\
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2028001</TD></TR></TABLE>
Looks like you have just researched the most expensive parts you can find. You dont need a twin gate setup for 500whp amoung other things. Keep up the research.
06-30-2007, 04:38 PM
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Re: (97CWITR)
yes i have changed my mind i just got back with full race im not using twin gate just proam manifold.
most expensive. well i came to the conslusion in life that best things usually cost the most why spend 500 bucks on something thats going to break easy when you can spend 700 on something that want break at all or has 100% money bACK GARNENTEE
most expensive. well i came to the conslusion in life that best things usually cost the most why spend 500 bucks on something thats going to break easy when you can spend 700 on something that want break at all or has 100% money bACK GARNENTEE
06-30-2007, 06:32 PM
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Re: (97CWITR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97CWITR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1. WRONG!!! PSI has nothing to do with it. PSI doesnt break engines! I always wondered how this mis-information got spread around....
2. WRONG!!! cam gear tuning has shown to provide big gains on a turbo setup!
3. WRONG!!! Stock valve train is fine as long as you keep stock rev limit and stock cams, which have made big power.
4. WRONG AGAIN!!! The itr tranny is fine depending on what kind of driving. Depends on driver habbits.
Im disapointed in the R forum...usually has some great insight
Looks like you have just researched the most expensive parts you can find. You dont need a twin gate setup for 500whp amoung other things. Keep up the research.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Do you currently own a turbo charged Type-R? Have you gone through the whole build process and tuning process? How familiar are you with Geoffs Full-Race kits? Simply curious, since you decided to jump down my throat.
1) PSI does matter, and it's all relative pal. It's all an elementary part of the equation of setting up a turbo charged car. It may not be the crucial element, but it is still an element that needs addressing none-the-less.
2) Cam gear tuning does create gains. I'm not a ******* moron. Simmer down. On MY SETUP, which I was referring too, leaving the stock ITR cams at zero, gave the best gains. You respond as if I made a 100% factual statement about ALL cam/gear setups.
3) I say the stock parts are insufficient you say they are not. I base my logic on the amount of heat generated by a turbo setup of that caliber. My EGT gauges were reading 1350-1400 degrees F driving casually, and 1600 degrees F during full boost. Heat tends to wear out parts faster. It is called preventative maintenence to simply install parts that are superior to OEM.
4) How can you say 'wrong again' if you controdict yourself in the next ******* sentence. From my own experience with a setup very similar to what he wants, installed in an f'ing ITR, I say that the transmission is too short. Ever spun tires through all five gears regardless of your tires and added traction components? How about done burn outs by simply pressing on the gas in third, fourth or fifth gear? STFU. Do we need rehash why the ITR tranny mated with a stock B18C5 is superb?
Do you have personal experience with one of Geoffs' kits? How do YOU, PERSONALLY know that a dual waste gate setup is overkill? I sure as **** wished I had it on my Full-Race kit.
1. WRONG!!! PSI has nothing to do with it. PSI doesnt break engines! I always wondered how this mis-information got spread around....
2. WRONG!!! cam gear tuning has shown to provide big gains on a turbo setup!
3. WRONG!!! Stock valve train is fine as long as you keep stock rev limit and stock cams, which have made big power.
4. WRONG AGAIN!!! The itr tranny is fine depending on what kind of driving. Depends on driver habbits.
Im disapointed in the R forum...usually has some great insight
Looks like you have just researched the most expensive parts you can find. You dont need a twin gate setup for 500whp amoung other things. Keep up the research.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Do you currently own a turbo charged Type-R? Have you gone through the whole build process and tuning process? How familiar are you with Geoffs Full-Race kits? Simply curious, since you decided to jump down my throat.
1) PSI does matter, and it's all relative pal. It's all an elementary part of the equation of setting up a turbo charged car. It may not be the crucial element, but it is still an element that needs addressing none-the-less.
2) Cam gear tuning does create gains. I'm not a ******* moron. Simmer down. On MY SETUP, which I was referring too, leaving the stock ITR cams at zero, gave the best gains. You respond as if I made a 100% factual statement about ALL cam/gear setups.
3) I say the stock parts are insufficient you say they are not. I base my logic on the amount of heat generated by a turbo setup of that caliber. My EGT gauges were reading 1350-1400 degrees F driving casually, and 1600 degrees F during full boost. Heat tends to wear out parts faster. It is called preventative maintenence to simply install parts that are superior to OEM.
4) How can you say 'wrong again' if you controdict yourself in the next ******* sentence. From my own experience with a setup very similar to what he wants, installed in an f'ing ITR, I say that the transmission is too short. Ever spun tires through all five gears regardless of your tires and added traction components? How about done burn outs by simply pressing on the gas in third, fourth or fifth gear? STFU. Do we need rehash why the ITR tranny mated with a stock B18C5 is superb?
Do you have personal experience with one of Geoffs' kits? How do YOU, PERSONALLY know that a dual waste gate setup is overkill? I sure as **** wished I had it on my Full-Race kit.
06-30-2007, 06:48 PM
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Re: (97CWITR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97CWITR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1. WRONG!!! PSI has nothing to do with it. PSI doesnt break engines! I always wondered how this mis-information got spread around....
2. WRONG!!! cam gear tuning has shown to provide big gains on a turbo setup!
3. WRONG!!! Stock valve train is fine as long as you keep stock rev limit and stock cams, which have made big power.
4. WRONG AGAIN!!! The itr tranny is fine depending on what kind of driving. Depends on driver habbits.
Im disapointed in the R forum...usually has some great insight</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow you're WRONG!!! more then anyone in this thread. Brandon throw a jumping spider at him, that'll show him some boost.
1. WRONG!!! PSI has nothing to do with it. PSI doesnt break engines! I always wondered how this mis-information got spread around....
2. WRONG!!! cam gear tuning has shown to provide big gains on a turbo setup!
3. WRONG!!! Stock valve train is fine as long as you keep stock rev limit and stock cams, which have made big power.
4. WRONG AGAIN!!! The itr tranny is fine depending on what kind of driving. Depends on driver habbits.
Im disapointed in the R forum...usually has some great insight</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow you're WRONG!!! more then anyone in this thread. Brandon throw a jumping spider at him, that'll show him some boost.
06-30-2007, 09:50 PM
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Re: (Haleiwa-Brando)
Originally Posted by Haleiwa-Brando
Do you currently own a turbo charged Type-R? Have you gone through the whole build process and tuning process? How familiar are you with Geoffs Full-Race kits? Simply curious, since you decided to jump down my throat.
1) PSI does matter, and it's all relative pal. It's all an elementary part of the equation of setting up a turbo charged car. It may not be the crucial element, but it is still an element that needs addressing none-the-less.
2) Cam gear tuning does create gains. I'm not a ******* moron. Simmer down. On MY SETUP, which I was referring too, leaving the stock ITR cams at zero, gave the best gains. You respond as if I made a 100% factual statement about ALL cam/gear setups.
3) I say the stock parts are insufficient you say they are not. I base my logic on the amount of heat generated by a turbo setup of that caliber. My EGT gauges were reading 1350-1400 degrees F driving casually, and 1600 degrees F during full boost. Heat tends to wear out parts faster. It is called preventative maintenence to simply install parts that are superior to OEM.
4) How can you say 'wrong again' if you controdict yourself in the next ******* sentence. From my own experience with a setup very similar to what he wants, installed in an f'ing ITR, I say that the transmission is too short. Ever spun tires through all five gears regardless of your tires and added traction components? How about done burn outs by simply pressing on the gas in third, fourth or fifth gear? STFU. Do we need rehash why the ITR tranny mated with a stock B18C5 is superb?
Do you have personal experience with one of Geoffs' kits? How do YOU, PERSONALLY know that a dual waste gate setup is overkill? I sure as **** wished I had it on my Full-Race kit.
1. You made it seem like it was a lot bigger than "an element." When you said "It all depends on what PSI you're going to run daily." It matters how much whp you run daily. Thanks champ!
2. "Cam gear tuning does create gains" Sounds damn general to me?
Under the dyno graph http://forums.evans-tuning.com...+gear "Cam gear adjustments made a significant power increase (30 ft-lbs, 25 whp)."-JE
http://forums.evans-tuning.com...+gear "Picked up 20-25whp with cam gear adjustments on the stock cams"-JE
http://forums.evans-tuning.com...+gear "With cam gear adjustments and a higher redline, 350whp is achievable."-JE
No gains with cam gear tuning? Interesting...
3) Show me where EGT readings have anything to do with valve train wear?!?!?!
If stock parts are so ineffcient, why are people making big numbers on the stock fuel lines, ignition systems and cams?
By your reasoning those all need to be replaced
"I say the stock parts are insufficient you say they are not. I base my logic on the amount of heat generated by a turbo setup of that caliber"
http://forums.evans-tuning.com...=4554 stock gsr head, cams, tb, IM, valve train 425whp...I'd say thats pretty good for stock parts wouldnt you? Right between his goals of "between 350whp and 500whp" Thats using smaller gsr parts...
Thanks fior spitting your your magical setup, even though yours might me similiar, must we bring up again how 2 engines react differently to the same setup?
"How do YOU, PERSONALLY know that a dual waste gate setup is overkill"
Becasue I research the crap out of the parts I put on my car! Thats why. If you think you NEED 2 gates to control boost on your setup at 350-500whp on a medium sized turbo, you have other issues that u need to figure out.
Im not the only one who thinks 2 gates is over kill:
"Full-Race ProAm T4/44 Dual Gate Manifold unless you plan on getting this used and its a great deal a regular pro-am manifold with single gate will work just fine unless you plan on running a massive turbo at low boost (the twin gates help regulate boost on huge turbo's with low boost, otherwise they are unnecessary)"
-copzter
makes sense to me?
Cait wait to hear you discredit the dyno graphs there champ!
07-01-2007, 01:02 AM
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Re: (97CWITR)
Originally Posted by 97CWITR
I had a turbo gsr previous to my itr
Originally Posted by 97CWITR
1. You made it seem like it was a lot bigger than "an element." When you said "It all depends on what PSI you're going to run daily." It matters how much whp you run daily. Thanks champ!
Originally Posted by 97CWITR
2. "Cam gear tuning does create gains" Sounds damn general to me?
Under the dyno graph http://forums.evans-tuning.com...+gear "Cam gear adjustments made a significant power increase (30 ft-lbs, 25 whp)."-JE
http://forums.evans-tuning.com...+gear "Picked up 20-25whp with cam gear adjustments on the stock cams"-JE
http://forums.evans-tuning.com...+gear "With cam gear adjustments and a higher redline, 350whp is achievable."-JE
No gains with cam gear tuning? Interesting...
Under the dyno graph http://forums.evans-tuning.com...+gear "Cam gear adjustments made a significant power increase (30 ft-lbs, 25 whp)."-JE
http://forums.evans-tuning.com...+gear "Picked up 20-25whp with cam gear adjustments on the stock cams"-JE
http://forums.evans-tuning.com...+gear "With cam gear adjustments and a higher redline, 350whp is achievable."-JE
No gains with cam gear tuning? Interesting...
Originally Posted by 97CWITR
3) Show me where EGT readings have anything to do with valve train wear?!?!?!
If stock parts are so ineffcient, why are people making big numbers on the stock fuel lines, ignition systems and cams?
By your reasoning those all need to be replaced
If stock parts are so ineffcient, why are people making big numbers on the stock fuel lines, ignition systems and cams?
By your reasoning those all need to be replaced
Originally Posted by 97CWITR
http://forums.evans-tuning.com...=4554 stock gsr head, cams, tb, IM, valve train 425whp...I'd say thats pretty good for stock parts wouldnt you? Right between his goals of "between 350whp and 500whp" Thats using smaller gsr parts...
Originally Posted by 97CWITR
Thanks fior spitting your your magical setup, even though yours might me similiar, must we bring up again how 2 engines react differently to the same setup?
Originally Posted by 97CWITR
Becasue I research the crap out of the parts I put on my car! Thats why. If you think you NEED 2 gates to control boost on your setup at 350-500whp on a medium sized turbo, you have other issues that u need to figure out.
Every engine and setup reacts differently.
OEM valve train parts are the same and/or a non-issue regardless of milage.
If someone needs two waste gates to control boost, they have problems. Yet every engine and setup acts differently.
Originally Posted by 97CWITR
Im not the only one who thinks 2 gates is over kill:
"Full-Race ProAm T4/44 Dual Gate Manifold unless you plan on getting this used and its a great deal a regular pro-am manifold with single gate will work just fine unless you plan on running a massive turbo at low boost (the twin gates help regulate boost on huge turbo's with low boost, otherwise they are unnecessary)"
-copzter
makes sense to me?
"Full-Race ProAm T4/44 Dual Gate Manifold unless you plan on getting this used and its a great deal a regular pro-am manifold with single gate will work just fine unless you plan on running a massive turbo at low boost (the twin gates help regulate boost on huge turbo's with low boost, otherwise they are unnecessary)"
-copzter
makes sense to me?
There is a member here who has an ITR turbo'd with dual waste gates, and with his comparative testing, he swears by dual waste gates. Sounds like I'm not the only one out there.
You still haven't answered my question about having personal experience running and tuning a kit from Geoff. I'll swear on my left nut that they are the most efficient quickest power making kits currently available.
Originally Posted by 97CWITR
Cait wait to hear you discredit the dyno graphs there champ!
I'm off to eat some supper. Hope our arguement is helping the OP.
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