Ausmith

Hi everyone. Please take the time to read this post in it’s entirety as it is very important.

I was in touch with Wes yesterday regarding a fairly serious issue for the 2002 ITR Expo. Here is the story as I understand it. (Wes is taking care of personal business today and was unable to post)

Wes contracted with Phil at CGI Motorsports to host the event. The cost for Phil to do this was $12,000, which is pretty easy math for what it cost you ($300x40people). This quote was to include track, corners workers, Phil’s time, and insurance.

Just a couple of quick facts before I continue. The typical cost to rent Gingerman on a weekday is $2200 per day with corner workers costing an additional $230 per day.

As the event is getting close, Wes contacted Phil just to make sure things were in order. The topic of insurance came up, and it was disclosed that this event would not include event insurance. Gingerman Raceway has their own policy and CGI Motorsports has their own policy, but the event, its participants, organizers, and spectators do not have any sort of coverage. There will also NOT be an ambulance on site.

There was some discussion back and forth between Wes and Phil. Early yesterday Phil said he could get insurance but that it would cost additional money. By the end of the day Phil said he would not get insurance and wanted to cancel the event. Phil also stated that as far as a refund went he would take what he felt was reasonable for his own T&E and the rest may come out to the paid participants as a refund.

As Wes last left it with Phil the event is still on.

Wes and I have both spoken to K&K Insurance and gotten a quote of $1375.00 to cover the event with an umbrella liability policy. EMT on site would be an additional $800 for the event.

Again, let me reiterate the fact that none of the participants will be covered should an accident occur on or off the track. That means if you tangle with someone and they are injured you could be held, actually we could all be held, liable. King Motorsports is not willing to attend the event unless there is an event liability policy in place.

So as a group we are faced with a decision about what to do. Here are our choices in the matter:

1) We can cancel the event. There is no guarantee that we will receive any money in return without taking legal action.

2) We can run the event without liability coverage.

3) We can ALL agree to pay an additional $55 for liability insurance and on site EMT.

Please respond to this post and let me know what you would like to do. You may also email me. I need to get your input by noon tomorrow at which time we will make a decision.

A couple of final comments. Please understand that this was in no way intentional on Wes’s part. He has worked extremely hard to make this event happen, and he is very very upset right now regarding the situation. Also understand that King Motorsports had to make a business decision here regarding the liability they might expose themselves to. Please do not let the facts presented here reflect on Wes or King Motorsports.

Thanks

Clayton



[Modified by Ausmith, 9:53 PM 5/23/2002]

BlueR

iTrader: (10)

can a mod make this a sticky....

Johnny Tran

may need to get this settled ASAP.......lots of folks have already left home(craig comes to mind) and it would be a shame to travel so far if the event is cancelled.

Back in Black

Running ANY event without fire/rescue is NOT an option for me. Don't get me wrong, I'm cautious on track, but anything can happen...

Jason-
who can't believe this...

zijiejijeijrkjk

im willing to pay an extra $35 dollars, so its not cancelled. i really want to go.

Big Phat R

You've all come this far......what's an extra 35 bux?

davidnyc

I have no probs with the extra cash, but is someone first fronting the insurance bill first and we are paying them back?

Ausmith

.That will probably be the case, and it will probably be me fronting the cash.


[Modified by Ausmith, 9:42 PM 5/23/2002]

PMTypeR

damn

I'm willing to pay the $35

do you have a pay pal account Clayton?

Back in Black

When was it common knowledge that we wouldn't have fire/rescue present? Can this decision be reversed?

Jason-
who doesn't care about $35, but DOES care about the participants...

Ausmith

We need to make a decision before we talk about money.


I realize that people have already left. I got this up as soon as I could. Wes and I didn't want to post anything until we understood all of the facts and got more information about the insurance policy.

Thanks

Ausmith

Not until yesterday. Wes, like anyone would, assumed that insurance and EMT would be included for the hefty price tag.

Back in Black

That leads me to another question...

Where is the remainder of the $12,000 going?

Forgive me, but we REALLY need to think about the seriousness of not having rescue staff on track. This could be a recipe for disaster.

EFFECT

It doesnt really matter to me if there are not fire or rescue, Ive never been to a CGI event that had them there.. That said, I still would have no problem paying 35 bucks, as Im sure no one else would either. I would like to see king there though thats worth 35 to me.. Just get the insurance, Im sure no one will have a problem paying 35 bucks

Ausmith

I agree.

Everyone is welcome to draw their own conclusions about the $12,000 and where exactly it is going.

I am going to revise the original post to include a cost for on site EMT at $20 per person. The total per person for EMT and insurance would be $55.


[Modified by Ausmith, 9:54 PM 5/23/2002]

Wai

I understand the ambulance part, but what exactly is the "insurance" for?

Everyone of us has to sign a waiver anyway, so any accidents happen to us would not go against the track or CGI right?

I don't mind paying the extra $35. But just want to make things clear what the insurance is for.

Back in Black

onyx00

I am not going to the expo, but speaking purely from a insurance/legal point of view you don't want to do the event without insurance. The risk is not worth it. If someone gets hurt they can sue everyone there, and those that aren't insured would be in big trouble. Don't take a risk, pay the $55 each and be on the safe side.

If you decide it is not possible to get insurance for the people at the event, etc, then I would cancel the event. As much as that would suck, you can always go after the responsible parties for the $12000 that was lost (or whatever the case is).

It seems odd that at the last minute insurance was brought up. I have run three events with CGI and we never had a problem before.

I would talk to nsxtcjr (Ken) because he is very knowledgable when it comes to things such as this and he has dealt with Phil on numerous occasions (sp?).

Wai

That is true. They only have tow truck standing by, but no fire or rescue crew.

RTW DC2R

Whats $35?? Seems like a little to pay to avoid the problems that could arise. Who knows where the money is going, but better to be safe the sorry. Im not even going, and wish I could, and I would pay $35 extra in a heartbeat because racing on the track is sorta a once in a lifetime opportunity for me. Pay the money and have a good time!!

Back in Black

I simply can not understand that at all

lanceh

so you're telling me phil is making $12,000 - $2200*2 - $230*2 = $7140 from this event?

and he never mentioned anything about insurance ad EMT until yesterday? WTF??

i have no problem paying the extra money.

Back in Black

Ausmith

Most events (motorsports, entertainment, etc...) carry some sort of event liability coverage. Take an autocross for example. SCCA requires insurance and you also sign a waiver.

Another example. If someone, without health insurance, gets hurt this policy would cover some medical expense.

Apparetly a release of liability waiver does not hold up well in court when serious accidents occur. They do not indemnify someone from negligence. If you tangle with someone on the track and it can be proven that you are negligent the waiver is worthless.

Wai

The only thing I can think of about the insurance is if someone ran off and damaged the property of Gingerman Raceway, then the driver would have to pay for it if he's not insured. Did I understand it right? If yes then the insurance is not for us, but for the property owner.

Again, we have to sign a waiver so I imagine that injuries is not part of the equation from the track and CGI standpoint?