Black R

Assume of course that you have the fuel management issues worked out (i.e.: vacuum log, hondata, etc...)

Discuss the following:

1. Power output

2. Mileage

3. Drivability Issues

4. Personal Experience and/ or hypotheses

You may also like to include variations of such a motor (including higher compression, and/ or cams...)

743power

I would PM "yoshikatu," he did itb's on a fairly stock motor, than added more stuff I believe. He had a lengthy post in the appearance forum about it.

Black R

.....his pics and dyno plots are gone.

I suspect somewher around 10whp for those things - even on a stock motor.

sk8

Not to thread jack but what are the gains of a stockish motor with the endyn intake manifold?

visi0n

you gained a huge chunk missing from your bank account.

Doctor CorteZ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1. Power output
2. Mileage
3. Drivability Issues
4. Personal Experience and/ or hypotheses
</TD></TR></TABLE>

1 - I doubt you'll see huge gains , but gains nonetheless
2 - should still be pretty high - 20 mpg min.
3 - none , they're drive-thru approved
4 - coolest sound ever , I have no data on a stock engine with ITB's but I've heard of dumber things...

Apex i ITR

Len should had have some 1st hand knowledge about this issue.

743power

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">.....his pics and dyno plots are gone.

I suspect somewher around 10whp for those things - even on a stock motor. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't want to spread mis-information, but I believe he had an ls-vtec in his type-r with ctr pistons and cams, and he put down close to 190whp, about a 17whp gain versus stock manifold. I would PM him, and ask though.

I'm sure you will make decent power with them, but you have to ask yourself if it's really worth it. Do you plan on building the rest of the motor to take full advantage of the itb's or just want to use them in conj. with a header or other bolt ons?

len

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1. Power output</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not a substantial increase. Higher compression and camshaft selection will yield a higher increase.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2. Mileage</TD></TR></TABLE>

Depends on the tune and driver.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3. Drivability Issues</TD></TR></TABLE>

Depends on the tune.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">4. Personal Experience and/ or hypotheses</TD></TR></TABLE>

ITBs are not for everyone.

Black R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by len &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Not a substantial increase. Higher compression and camshaft selection will yield a higher increase.

Depends on the tune and driver.

Depends on the tune.

ITBs are not for everyone. </TD></TR></TABLE>


C'mon len, your replies are weak.

You need to expound on what you mean by some of these... what compression is suitable or at least a minimum? What cams are minimum, what specs or grinds?

Sure sure, everything depends on the tune and the driver. What are some ballpark figures?

Yaya, I know they aren't for everyone. Like my spec b's and spec c's aren't for everyone due to the slightly lumpy idle. So what? What about itb's "isn't for everyone?"

uNF$@#!

ken, were you looking for more unsubstantiated claims such as:

1) adds to MaD vTek y0! 40+ whp E-Z

2) i get 45 mpg!

3) drivability...no probz if your shakin the bottle mang!

4) ITBz are dA b0Mbz y0!

98itR484

I will be putting on some ITBs soon on my fairly stock ITR motor....~11.3 CR (stock pistons) with JUN 3's. Just going to be testing them out to see what the differences are, we will be tuning with only a vafc.

D

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PacMan ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">we will be tuning with only a vafc. </TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL!

98itR484

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

LOL!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats for people that say it cant be done.........

We've done it before with 14.1+ CR and we will do it AGAIN with lower compression.

743power

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PacMan ITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thats for people that say it cant be done.........

We've done it before with 14.1+ CR and we will do it AGAIN with lower compression.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

ownzed.

for people doing things everybody said cant be done

goforbroke

We put TWM on b18c1 I know its not a type-r, but still. The the gsr had a DC header and thermal research exhaust and we are running TEC 3 on it. The car made 170whp with the filter stacks off it. Oh yeah the motor had 120K on it. And he does drive it every day just about.

Tadeh

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 743 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ownzed.

for people doing things everybody said cant be done</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly.

deepgreengsr

But there is still a limit on the stock motor. Next step is Standalone Fuel system. NOT hondata. At work i install electromotive and i don't have any complaints. Its true you can twek the stock honda ecu all you want but to get real and easier tuneing you need standalone not piggyback IE VAFC.

chad

not a rant or a rip....

but why does everyone want itb's these days?

Broken Gearbox

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not a rant or a rip....

but why does everyone want itb's these days?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

cause they look cool!!

MackSpeed-616

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">not a rant or a rip....

but why does everyone want itb's these days?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

b/c they were on mtv.

Johnny Tran

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MackSpeed-616 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

b/c they were on mtv.</TD></TR></TABLE>

exactly....

funnier yet is the fools that will cry when their precious hype arr no longer idles correctly at all times, has cold start issues, etc. But they will look supr d00per cool at the car show !...lol

and mack....thanks for reminding me of your faceplant. That wound was choice

MackSpeed-616

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Johnny Tran &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
and mack....thanks for reminding me of your faceplant. That wound was choice </TD></TR></TABLE>

haha, yeah that was fun.

Black R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MackSpeed-616 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

b/c they were on mtv.</TD></TR></TABLE>


Were they really?

I posted this thread because it's a topic that hasn't been discussed openly (to my knowledge). I see a lot of interest in which intake to buy, which intake manifold, which filter, etc..... At least one of these threads is constantly on the 1st page here.

Well, I also see used twm itb's for sale for $600-$800 - which would still be cheaper than the priciest intake and IM. Now of course it's all relative, and usually people will be given the requisite and "you're not at the level itb's will benefit you" mantra, but it seems that there is little shared knowledge on the subject with regards to very mild buildups.

I think much of it has to do with the expensivity/ exclusivity of the itb setups - they seem to be a last ditch effort to squeeze the power out of the otherwise maxed out and built na motor. We tend to call people moron's if they don't first put in high compression pistons, overbore to 2L+, and run the lumpiest cams available. Add headwork, and ported IM + "better" intake and THEN (and only then) do we find their purchase of itb's acceptable. Now sure, we all seem to agree they'll get gains from the itb's. But should they necessarily purchase this component last in their buildup? Won't they have to get their headwork redone now?

The $ justification comes in when you can get used itb's for less than $1k, and sell your stock intake manifold and your high $ intake. There is very little out of pocket cost in this situation. And it *could* be justified for such people.

What sort of gains would they have gotten if they had basically a STOCK motor? That was among the musings I had. I figured I'd post it.

sgT

money better spent elsewhere.