Sirfallsalot243

Recently ive been looking to upgrade my exhaust setup to a full 2.5" header back. Ive got a Rage header, and I dont need to run a cat. Im planning on getting the Kteller stainless steel exhaust kit, with a twin loop muffler. My trouble is in deciding on a muffler. I have it down to three choices:

Hytech twin loop: Best quality and sound, in full stainless. $395.

OBX Twin loop: Ive heard good things about this Mugen knockoff, and the sound clips also sound great. The thing Im worried about is longevity. I dont know anything about the construction of this muffler. If it is a fiberglass packed muffler, eventually the packing will burn out, and the sound muffling qualities will be lost. My current exhaust, an Apexi N1 has a "glasspack" style muffler, and has gotten increasingly louder over the past few years. Id love to get this muffler, but I dont want to have to replace it in a year. On the other hand, with its $90 shipped pricetag, I could replace it four times without it ever costing what the Hytech does. This is also in stainless steel.

SNL/ JDMCircle twin loop: I know very little about this one, except those who have it are happy with it. The sound clips sound awesome for this muffler. It is also in stainless steel, but like the OBX, im concerned about longevity. Pricetag is $95 (shipped). The thing I like about this over the OBX is that it is NOT OBX. Ive had bad experience with some OBX products, but the overwhelming good reviews on the OBX makes me want to give them a second chance.'

All three mufflers are a 2.5" mandrel bent twin loop muffler in stainless steel. Its hard to pick out the differences between them. Part of me things that If I bought the Hytech, Id only be paying for a name. Not that the Hytech isnt great quality, but is the quality difference worth paying an extra $300??

Thanks for any insight!

Sirfallsalot243

Some links for you guys to check them out:

OBX:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

SNL / JDM Circle:
http://www.jdmcircle.com/

Hytech:
http://hytechexhaust.com/ (click "Mufflers")

erikiksaz1

Of the three, the Hytech looks the closest to stock. I was on the dyno recently when someone (who was getting their GSR tuned), was surprised that I was running what they thought looked like a "stock catback." If you don't want the attention from the cops, this will probably be your best bet.

Another thing is that you're paying for quality. Take a look at the welds of the three pieces, I have no doubt that Hytech would be of the highest quality. As for the internal design, who knows if there's been any testing with the knockoff mufflers.

I have sound clips of the rage+hytech setup, if you'd like to hear.

Sirfallsalot243

I would love to hear that! Does the car in your clips have a cat?

The only thing i am concerned about with the OBX is the packing. The piping inside the muffler is wrapped with steel wool, and then packed with four stroke muffler packing (fiberglass packing). The steel wool is used to protect the fiberglass. The OBX doesnt use much steel wool though, allowing the packing to be burnt out more quickly/easily. As far as the welds go, Im not too concerned. The main problem with the OBX is that they use steel wire to weld the stainless peices together. This makes the steel welds rust. I can just weld right over them with some stainless wire when I assemble my catback.

doood

iTrader: (1)

another thing you should consider is are the internal loops of the obx and snl also 2.5''? i know the hytech is.

Sirfallsalot243

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by doood &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">another thing you should consider is are the internal loops of the obx and snl also 2.5''? i know the hytech is.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, they both are. Im starting to lean towards the SNL over the OBX, but havent decided where the Hytech fits into the equation yet.

Heres a sound clip of the SNL
http://s80.photobucket.com/alb...5.flv

TrueUntilDeath.com

Sirfallsalot243, thanks for your interest in our muffler!

Everyone loves to have good quality mufflers. When it comes to pricing, a lot of people say you get what you pay for. This is not always the case. As you know, we have plenty of vouches for sound and construction of our mufflers. Our customers are always satisfied with our products.

Each shipment we get of mufflers, we open each package to ensure that the welds are perfect.

We offer great customer service with a 24/7 voicemail service. We would never let our customers go unsatisfied.

If you have any questions about our products, do not hesitate to call us.

Christopher Nguyen
Customer Care
http://www.JDMCircle.com
(213)519-7984

liftedresearchgroup

good question

Sirfallsalot243

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris@JDMCircle.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sirfallsalot243, thanks for your interest in our muffler!

Everyone loves to have good quality mufflers. When it comes to pricing, a lot of people say you get what you pay for. This is not always the case. As you know, we have plenty of vouches for sound and construction of our mufflers. Our customers are always satisfied with our products.

Each shipment we get of mufflers, we open each package to ensure that the welds are perfect.

We offer great customer service with a 24/7 voicemail service. We would never let our customers go unsatisfied.

If you have any questions about our products, do not hesitate to call us.

Christopher Nguyen
Customer Care
http://www.JDMCircle.com
(213)519-7984</TD></TR></TABLE>

Chris, thanks for the reply. What I'd like to know is more about the actual welds themselves- are they mig or tig? Is the wire used stainless or steel wire?

TrueUntilDeath.com

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sirfallsalot243 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Chris, thanks for the reply. What I'd like to know is more about the actual welds themselves- are they mig or tig? Is the wire used stainless or steel wire?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I believe they're tig welded and stainless steel

MrKrizzle

SNL

RaceMyGhost

is that snl sound clip you posted a twin loop? thats pretty loud for a twinloop and it sounds like a subaru. SNL

LordAphotic

I have experience with the snl and the obx.

me and my friend had turboed together we both have the same 1994 dc4 the only difference is i have a b20 in mine. but we built an almost identical exhaust for our turbo setup.. the only difference is he went with the SNL and i went with the OBX.

oh yeah and a lil detail on our exhausts

MINE
2.5 inch crush bent , magna flow 22inch resonator, no cat, turbo (T3TO4E), ramhorn manifold, B20 engine

HIS
2.5 inch crush bent , magna flow 22inch resonator, no cat, turbo (T3 A/R.48A/R.50), Cast Logmanifold, LS engine


now i got a twin loop first. I was aiming for a close to stock sound as possible while being as straight through as possible. I got pretty close I think if i woulda gota a hytech twinloop i probably would have been at my goal...

anyways the OBX twinloop is what i purchased and used for about 10 months.... At first it was pretty good , I actually still have it but im deturboed now... anyways it is pretty quiet... but as you saw in that cut away picture above it is mostly fiberglass.... i noticed it got louder over time. now its a pretty good amount louder than what i originally remmember but its still not unbearable...(keep in mind i hate loud exhausts on 4cylinder cars)

but for the price..... the obx is a pretty good deal.... i mean its obviously not quality.... and i question the design sometimes but it does the job... though it starts to get louder after a while... but maybe its cause i was turboed?

now next is my friends SNL

After he saw how well my twinloop silenced my exhaust system he decided to get one too... at the time he had a straight through muffler so his setup was loud as expletive.... when he put on the new muffler and started the car the first time we were shocked.
the car was still pretty damn loud...
It got way quieter than it was before.... but it was still prety damn loud. probably like 50% louder than my obx off the bat..... but just like my obx it got even louder... but the snl got way louder way faster..... this is the sad part
when the exhaust was still new and not 100% black with exhaust fumes yet you could actually see fiberglass hairs sticking to the insides of the outer tip of the muffler.... and every now and then they make their reappearance with hard driving... in the end that muffler was pretty damn loud and a waste.....

though i like the design of the snl better than the obx cause its more symetrical and free flowing (looking) though im not sure which one is better in terms of performance...

honestly though ive been considering buying another snl and taking my obx and opening them both up to compare and also to find ways to improve them so people can open em up and fix them for good.

punoy69

I think I might be getting an SNL twin loop soon, but after reading the last review between OBX and SNL... might as well as get OBX lol. can anyone else chime in on the quality of the SNL twin loop or OBX or what not? preferably someone who has had theirs for more than a week lmao

RaceMyGhost

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RaceMyGhost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is that snl sound clip you posted a twin loop? thats pretty loud for a twinloop and it sounds like a subaru. SNL </TD></TR></TABLE>

after that review, i take back my for SNL.

TrueUntilDeath.com

Our mufflers are made for the NA crowd. Thats why they are 2.5". Everyone knows that you're supposed to run a 3" straight through for turbo set ups. If you do decide to run ou 2.5 exhaust keep in mind, exhaust fumes coming from a large forced induction engine pushes out 10 times more exhaust then daily driving a comparable modified N/A engine. As with turbo it will wear our your engine faster; same will happen to your exhaust. Daily driving conditions jump into the picture IE: High rpm revving, Running RICH, Bad O2s. Everything plays a factor into the wear and tear of things and everyone knows once you put a turbo on you engine it will lessen the life of you engine, why not lessen the life of you muffler? Same concept. As to everyone, to their own. I have 25 pages of excellent reviews even return customers. Choose your route, 90% of my customers are N/A users. Just FYI. Any other questions, Please let me know.


Modified by Chris@JDMCircle.com at 9:38 PM 4/21/2007

RaceMyGhost

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris@JDMCircle.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Our mufflers are made for the NA crowd. Thats why they are 2.5". Everyone knows that you're supposed to run a 3" straight through for turbo set ups. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Not necessarily. Pipping diameter is based on how much power you're putting out. Just because you have turbo does not mean you have to run a 3" pipe.

Sirfallsalot243

Any and all mufflers will get louder with time, with the exception of a chambered muffler, because it does not utilize fiberglass packing. Even the hytech unit uses fiberglass packing. This fiberglass packing will eventually wear out, and burn up. It needs to be replaced, and the muffler will be as quiet as it originally was. Perhaps SNL uses a lower quality packing, or less of it, but this is a very small problem if you know how to fix it. The problem with the OBX piece is that the welds are done with steel wire. While the unit is stainless steel, the steel welds will rust over time.

If you would like to try re-packing your muffler, its actually quite simple. First, buy a few bags of FMF 4-Stroke Silencer packing. This stuff is for dirtbikes- same concept, but its a much higher quality packing than the stuff that comes with the mufflers. It flows better and keeps sound down better. Then take the muffler apart, and loosely wrap the packing around the inside tubes, after laying a layer of steel wool around it. The difference will be drastic.

TrueUntilDeath.com

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sirfallsalot243 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you would like to try re-packing your muffler, its actually quite simple. First, buy a few bags of FMF 4-Stroke Silencer packing. This stuff is for dirtbikes- same concept, but its a much higher quality packing than the stuff that comes with the mufflers. It flows better and keeps sound down better. Then take the muffler apart, and loosely wrap the packing around the inside tubes, after laying a layer of steel wool around it. The difference will be drastic. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats new info to me

LordAphotic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sirfallsalot243 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Any and all mufflers will get louder with time, with the exception of a chambered muffler, because it does not utilize fiberglass packing. Even the hytech unit uses fiberglass packing. This fiberglass packing will eventually wear out, and burn up. It needs to be replaced, and the muffler will be as quiet as it originally was. Perhaps SNL uses a lower quality packing, or less of it, but this is a very small problem if you know how to fix it. The problem with the OBX piece is that the welds are done with steel wire. While the unit is stainless steel, the steel welds will rust over time.

If you would like to try re-packing your muffler, its actually quite simple. First, buy a few bags of FMF 4-Stroke Silencer packing. This stuff is for dirtbikes- same concept, but its a much higher quality packing than the stuff that comes with the mufflers. It flows better and keeps sound down better. Then take the muffler apart, and loosely wrap the packing around the inside tubes, after laying a layer of steel wool around it. The difference will be drastic. </TD></TR></TABLE>


For this reason i think everyone should buy the SNL ones cause the obx one has an odd shape/design compared to all other twinloops out there.... but i have both twin loops in my hands.... im gona start operating as soon as i get a new plasma cutter.

Sirfallsalot243

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris@JDMCircle.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thats new info to me </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep- if you look at Honda's four stroke dirt bikes, its basically the same as a B18B with 3 cylinders cut off, and a timing chain instead of a belt. The exhaust is the same concept- it works the same way, and can be repacked just like the dirtbikes. I repack the muffler on my dirtbikes and quads every season. The only difference is that the muffler for the dirtbikes is made to be opened and resealed again, but car mufflers are welded shut. Most people simply discard them once the packing is gone, which is completely unnessecary. Opening them and repacking them would give you a like new sound.

Sirfallsalot243

FMF has come a long way in their packing technology since the last time I looked. In the motocross world, there is a ton of pressure on riders to quiet down their bikes. Due to this, there is a high demand for quieter exhausts, which would result in more R&D in their packing. This packing looks the be of much higher quality than the stuff inside the OBX muffler (posted above). Check this out- id recommend 2 orders for a car muffler.

http://www.fmfracing.com/produ...10590

snowboardgeek1

Running a 3" exhaust is not always the best route for a turbo setup. For a mild turbo setup (bolt on turbo kits such as Greddy, Edelbrock) with moderate boost levels (ex. 7-10 psi), 2.5" is actually the best way to go. There is a such thing as too big of an exhaust, even for turbo setups.

Saying your exhaust/muffler is made for NA is somewhat shortsighted. Noise levels on mufflers is usually based on size of the muffler (surface area) and the packing material used. If you use cheap packing material, it won't matter whether you have an NA or turbo car. The muffler will just crap out. Definitely more so with a turbo.

Folks, there's a reason why various Greddy, DC, STOCK mufflers sound very quiet on NA and turbo cars. The size of the muffler plays a huge part on sound deadening. Look at your stock muffler. Notice how big it is, even though it is chambered inside. Take notice of ITR mufflers. They're about the same size as GSR/LS stock mufflers, yet they're straight thru design. Why is it quiet? Because they surface area inside the muffler and the material assist in sound deadening.

The best way to determine whether or not the SNL muffler is made of quality material, is to cut it in half, and see what the packing material is made of. I have a feeling it'll be similar to the OBX muffler. Why would I say that? I have a friend who purchased the SNL muffler and experienced the same sound increase on his NA Civic EJ8. He replaced the SNL muffler within 6 months. He said the sound deadening material was basically gone...all he heard was a constant rattle. When they took off the muffler, he heard metal hitting metal while he shook the muffler. And if you're wondering about the quality of his ride, never burned oil, excellent running car. Passes smog easily. Its a very mild NA built car. Only the basics...I/H/E.

There's a reason why greddy, DC, and other major aftermarket exhaust companies charge so much for their exhausts. You get what you pay for.

And if you guys are interested on what I'm running...I have an old DC exhaust, full stainless steel, only 2.25", bought used from a guy who put 20K miles. I boost regularly on this exhaust and have owned it for quite a while now, and have added another 20K miles...and the sound has not changed from my NA days to now. In fact, the car is quieter with the turbo, which is what is supposed to happen. The turbo acts as another muffler in terms of sound deadening. I need to upgrade to a 2.5" setup, which I will get custom made.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris@JDMCircle.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Our mufflers are made for the NA crowd. Thats why they are 2.5". Everyone knows that you're supposed to run a 3" straight through for turbo set ups. If you do decide to run ou 2.5 exhaust keep in mind, exhaust fumes coming from a large forced induction engine pushes out 10 times more exhaust then daily driving a comparable modified N/A engine. As with turbo it will wear our your engine faster; same will happen to your exhaust. Daily driving conditions jump into the picture IE: High rpm revving, Running RICH, Bad O2s. Everything plays a factor into the wear and tear of things and everyone knows once you put a turbo on you engine it will lessen the life of you engine, why not lessen the life of you muffler? Same concept. As to everyone, to their own. I have 25 pages of excellent reviews even return customers. Choose your route, 90% of my customers are N/A users. Just FYI. Any other questions, Please let me know.


Modified by Chris@JDMCircle.com at 9:38 PM 4/21/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

TrueUntilDeath.com

Most turbo designed mufflerrs are straight through compared to na mufflers which are chambed for back pressurre and low noise. Straight through mufflers have little rrestrriction, thats why some people run open downpipes on turbo set ups. hence cherrybombs for those muscle guys back in the 60's

if you want to talk about cost of production then you should find out how much those exhaust companies really pay to get their stuff made. people think its good cause it has a name to it. i can get a mandrel bend 2.36" set up for half the cost of what apexi, greddy, skunk sell it for!

Nrg probably pays 20 bucks a piece for their qr and pay another 5 dollars to have their name on it.

those new suspension set ups are 85% the same. ksport d2 f2. they all have the same style. adjustable preload, custom rates. the only thing they change is the color and name.

to each their own, consumers choice. If you have the money, do whatever your wallet desires

99% of our customers are satisfied. we go out of our way to serve our customers, we dont hide when something is defective or wrong.

I am not saying this because I work for the company, I am saying it based on what customers have told us.

we've taken in consideration to make a v2 that will be repackable for those who are interested.
we take your thoughts into consideration!


Modified by Chris@JDMCircle.com at 12:02 PM 4/26/2007

Slain

I've had good experiences with my snl. its quiet when it wants to be.. the construction looks to be really good as well... they are good in my book