Dc4LsTeG

iTrader: (7)

And what are you even trying to say? Your not even talking about what the discussion is about.

Plus everyone knows you break your car in hard.

skipper28-DC

I work at Valvoline Intant Oil Change. The synthetic is specially formulated to increase the life of older vehicles. As far as Im concerned 'you get what you pay for'. That said, conventional oil in NOT bad for your car. But if you want to rev high sometimes I would strongly recommend using synthetic if not a syn-blend; in order to help minimized internal wear within the engine during high revs(especially in high temps).
Everyone takes care of their engines differently, but if u honestly want to abuse it without concern go synthetic. I use Mobil 1 Extended Performance and it feels like my engine is constanty in a car wash. <To put it in perspective.

vladd

How did you determine whether a car loves or hates synthetic oil?

More deeps thoughts from our own genius.

dc_jdm_dreams

Well I noticed a much higher valve tick in the explorer and it ran like carp till i flushed and went back to conventional. in the suburban it had the same issue. but in the 240sx with the KA motor is has hydro timing chain tensioners and they seemed to start leaking every where and not work any more allowing the timing chain to slap everywhere. which is somewhat common in the KA motor but not as bad as this was. so i again did a flush and switched back to conventional. The other cars loved it they either ran smoother or the same as with conventional and with the RB engine I did notice less oil consumption by the turbos and my EGT's even ran like 4 degrees colder believe it or not.

TheRealTegger

I'm as much of a genius as you are.

copy

Okay, here is exactly what I am trying to say.
1. If it is a new car you start by using mineral oil till the first oil change .
2. After that you can switch to synthetic.
3. If the car is old and you switch to synthetics there is zero advantage.

I don't know where you heard to break a car in hard, but that is asinine, sorry to be blunt but i don't want to see people ruining there cars on bad advice.
I think you need to listen more and learn from experts.

TOO MUCH TORQUE

this is a controversial topic, so here is a link to open your perspective.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Dc4LsTeG

iTrader: (7)

LOL..I need to listen and learn more? Here you go

https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/new-engine-break-some-new-ideas-878397/

Ryan96GSR

From my understanding of oil You will not burn more oil becuase you use synthetic over conventional. Oil burn off is a side effect of your current engines condition.

When in fact the problem is likely burnt piston rings as an example and conventional oil will cake it self onto your pistons and rings which would slow down oil burn. When you switch to synthetic, it cleans out the deposits left behind by conventional oil... and bingo you know start to notice more oil burn off.

TunerN00b

And lower amounts of anti-wear additives as well, zinc specifically if my memory is working correctly.

I change mine much more often, but mostly because HPDE and autocross abuse warrants more frequent changes.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

LOL @ the synthetic vs. conventional thread.

A huge majority of people using synthetic in their cars will never see any REAL benefit from using it. There are tons of 300+k mile cars that have been maintained using conventional oil the whole life of the engine.

People think that just because you drive your car spiritedly once in a while, you need synthetic for MAXIMUM PROTECTION! That's like saying that just incase you run to the mailbox at the end of your 2 car driveway once or twice a week instead of walking to it, you need $500 sneakers that offer your feet the maximum amount of foot protection.

There are tons of cars that are tracked often (including my ITR and S2000) that use conventional oil with no issues.

Do whatever makes you feel safe and cozy, though.

copy

I've been getting mine changed about twice a year. I go by Honda's suggestions regarding oil frequency changes. I hardly burn any oil and never had to add. IMO the 5w20 oil makes all the difference. The 5w30 oil is okay in a pinch but it feels like the engine is always fighting it. I used to work with big industrial machines and our engineers always said the lighter the oil you could use and still have lubrication the better the heat removal and less wear and tear on the machine. The really big turbines used organic linseed oil which is the exact opposite of synthetics. I would think linseed would really coke up the combustion chambers on car engines but my point is that sometimes nature puts out a better product.

TunerN00b

A turbine doesn't have to deal with the same issues that a reciprocating engine does.

At high rpm heavy load use, there is pretty much no oil left on certain wear surfaces in a reciprocating engine, and only the anti-wear additives in the oil are protecting the bearing surfaces.

redline870

synthetic oil is NOT a waste of money. it reaches the top of the engine faster on cold starts and maintains its viscosity much better during cold or hot conditions. i agree that many cars have gone 300k+ on regular oil but that doesnt mean that synthetic oil does not lubricate better under hot and cold conditions. you ever drain the oil on a car that has been sitting outside on a 20 degree winter day and notice how slow the oil comes out? well drain the oil on the exact same car with synthetic oil and watch how much faster it comes out. now imagine how much slower that thick conventional oil is going to take to reach the top of the engine vs the synthetic oil on a cold start. obviously the synthetic will pump through the engine much faster. although you may not "see" any difference when using sythetic, the engine will definitely see the difference. my brother and best friend both have identical 2000 civic's and i have maintained both of those cars since they got them. my brother used convential and my friend used synthetic. i know they havent neglected oil change intervals because i have done all the oil changes on them. i did the timing belt and water pump on both cars and when the valve cover came off the differences were night and day. the civic that ran convential had its normal carbon build up and wear on the cam lobes where the civic that ran on full synthetic looked like it was brand new. not one spec of carbon build up and hardly any visible wear on the cam lobes. the funny part about that is my friend runs his car hard and beats on it a lot harder than my brother. in a high mileage vehicle it is possible for any existing oil leaks to leak worse and for this reason i recommend a high mileage synthetic blend oil. although your car WILL run fine on convential oil that doesnt mean that it wont benefit from using synthetic oil. after seeing the differences between those two engines i have started using synthetic oil in all my cars and have never looked back. my whole family all use synthetic oil now and most of my friends do too. synthetic oil is newer technology and just like cars get better with ever increasing technology so do oils. anyone who says synthetic oil is a waste of money probably havent seen the differences side by side and probably think they are the smartest people in the world due to reading material on a few websites that they dont know who has written. i am no expert on the topic but i have seen the differences on the exact same engines under similar conditions in the same climate so i can only speak on my experiences.

copy

Hi,
There was a poster on this thread that mentioned that the American cars that he owned had a tapping noise from the engine when using synthetic oils. Synthetic oil has problems building hydraulic pressures. Just from what you said about the viscosity of the oil during cold temperatures bears this out. Hydraulic lifters suffer from synthetic oil. I would think mechanical lifters are very okay with synthetic oil. That is one of the main reasons not to use synthetic oil when breaking in a new ring set. Inadequate hydraulic pressure to seat the rings. Also , keep in mind that all the studies and all the data is paid for by someone. Usually who ever pays for a study tells the independent and non bias consulting firm ( ha ha ) what results they want before the tests are run. Although it probably wasn't practical you didn't mention if you miked the cam lobes to see how much they worn.
I have tried that slick 50 product once, I don't even know if they sell it anymore but it was great in the engine. Years down the road my oil pump broke and I was wondered if that contributed to it. Normally I never have problems ( knock on wood) with oil pumps. Synthetic oils were the answer to disposing of expensive chemical ester waste to an American public that had a lot of disposable cash. If you are buying synthetic oils then that's very environmentally nice of you. I think you will see a trade off with synthetic oils. Some things will fare better and some things will fare worse. Probably the blends would be the wisest choice if you are going that route. So I will meet you half way. A blend is doable but not a full synthetic.

redline870

i 100% agree with you on never breaking in a new engine with synthetic oil. i would never do that either.
as for synthetics i forgot to mention that i would never use the ever so popular, oil of all oils, better than anything else, MOBIL 1! i forget what chemical it was that major oil companies have removed from their oil but mobil 1 i remember was one of the first to do it. there is some excellent lubricating chemical that used to be in synthetic oil that was found to be harful to catalytic converters over a long period of time, and therefore was removed by major oil companies. mobil 1 was one of the first to do it. i dont know about you but i would rather replace a cat than a motor. there are several oil companies that still use this chemical but i cant remember the specifics. i know royal purple still has the chemical in it. i use royal purple oil with a moly additive.
as for american cars... after working in a shop for 8 years, it has become clear that the americans still have yet to make a good car. i dont think it matters what oil is put in an american car, they are still garbage and will be in the repair shop 10 times for every 1 time that a honda has to be repaired. yeah you may have to do the occasional stabilizer link or upper control arm, but thats a lot better than, well, everything that goes bad on american cars and especially gm's. sorry if this upsets some people but the truth hurts, they are garbage. one of the only american cars i see go consistenly past the 200k mile mark without countless problems is crown vics.

dc_jdm_dreams

I have also learned that some hydraulic timing chain tentioners hate synthetic oil. But most that i have found that hate it were on 90's cars and were not honda. But by far synthetic oil is not a wast of money in my book. Bikes love synthetic and look how high there rpms go up with no prob. Plus anything is better then Pennzoil conventional you want to wast your money buy that crap.

vladd

For you guys saying not to break in engines using synthetic oil, what about cars that come with synthetic from the factory?

racebum

LOL

are you trollling?

racebum

it's zinc.

all of the store bought syns have low zinc levels now.

brad penn, redline, amsoil etc all have higher levels but that's not always a go-to for a street car. race only oils often don't have the additive packs needed for 3000-5000 mile oil changes.

TOO MUCH TORQUE

i am not...and if you believe a gsr engine needs synthetic, you need to educate yourself on oils by looking at oil analysis

the only mass production car made by honda that REQUIRES and NEEDS synthetic is the RDX. not even the nsx or s2000 needs it.

el crapitan

a basic principle of hydraulics is that pressure and flow rise and lower in exact accordance to each other. a rise in one means a drop in the other.

copy

The recommendations for high performance engines that are using synthetic oil filled from the factory require the oil level not to fall below 1 quart from being completely full. I have seen dodge cars that ran with one quart of oil without destroying the engine although I definitely do not recommend that.

There may be some kind of sandwiched metal for the rings that overcome the limitation of synthetic oils for break-in ( just a guess ). Without working in the factory I will never know because its probably a trade secret issue.

But if I bought a car that came factory filled with synthetic oil I would definitely be okay with that because its their product and they should know whats best. If you design an engine that was made to use synthetic rather than dino oil, is a lot different than taking an engine that was made for dino oils and using synthetic.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Mass production engines aren't made for dino oils or made for synthetic oils. The reason that some manufacturers factory fill their engines with synthetic is:

1.) They usually recommend some certain brand. Mobil1, let's say. This might have a lot to do with a business deal between the two companies. The oil's additive package might be another VERY small part of the reason (maybe the car's bearings were designed to like whatever additives a certain oil has in it). As well as the available viscosities of the oil.

2.) Some engines probably would do best with synthetic. Forced induction engines really should use synthetic oil.

3.) Manufacturers want you to think that you're buying something special. "Remember to use only premium fuel and synthetic oil" might seem like a turn off to the average consumer....but to someone who wants a "special" car, that's a HUGE marketing ploy. "OMG look at how special and picky and tempremental my car is!" is something car guys say proudly. You think that the LS motors in Corvettes are SO different from other cars that they NEED to use ONLY Mobil1? Hell no.

racebum

so better cold flow, not creating sludge deposits and higher heat resistance aren't needed?

in a street car most of your wear is caused on start up. cold flow is a big deal

secondly, you ever tear apart a blown up motor that's been on syn its whole life vs one on dino oil? they look night and day inside