ive got a good one for ya, electrical/wont start
11-18-2006, 05:53 PM
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no power to pump, relay and grounds ok, what next?
ok, heres my situation with my 94 2dr GSR
SKIP THE NEXT PART UNLESS YOUR BORED
After blowing my heater hose on the highway i patched it with electriclal tape and topped off the coolant and drove home about 15 miles. At home i replaced the heater hose and managed to spill a good amount of coolant all over the place. I let the car sit for about 15 minutes and when i go out to try and start it the pump isnt priming and the car turn everything else is fine plus i got a CEL 16 which is injectors and a o2 sensor heater code and vtec solenoid switch code, radio and headlights and stuff work. I go inside and read up and learn that the relay is a probable culprit. I go out and listen and hold onto the relay and it only click once when i turn the key to on, no off click and no start click. So i wait a few days go to a junkyard and get a new relay. Its been about 4 days at this point so i go home and pop the relay in and same thing, i pull up the back seat and pop off the plug to the pump and put a multimeter probes in there to test voltage and this time when iturn the key i get 3 volts for 2 seconds and the relay does all its clicks. I put the plug back on the pump and the pump primes and the car starts. I let it idle for 5 minutes or so to reset the ecu since i unpluged the bat. I get in it and drive 10 minutes and park for a couple hours. I get back in my car starts right up and drives for 3 minutes and cuts out. i roll to a stop and turn the key and listen for the pump and nothing, same thing as before 1st click of the relay and nothing else. I assume its the junkyard relay and order a breand new OEM relay, i get it and notice its not the soldered kind, its got 2 little black boxes in it so obviously its redesigned. It takes 4 days to get the relay and i pop itin my car and everything works and i drive away, 10 minutes later it dies while going about 60 miles an hour, no fuel. Only the first relay click no prime, this time i got a new CEL 14 which is electronic air control. Every time the car has died it ran perfectly fine before hand (even hit vtec both times) but at about the time the car has been fully warmed up for a few minutes it cuts out. So my car gets pulled to a parking lot and its sits there a few days, oen day when i got to check stuff i turn the key and i heard the pump prime, i wiggle some stuff and it still primes. i go to start it and click teh start isnt working, battery gets recharged at autozone and it still jsut clicks, i clean the contact and bam teh starter works just fine but the pump doesnt prime anymore?!. i clean ALL teh ground wires valve cover, transmission, adn thermostat, still no prime. relay checks out just fine, so does the ignition switch. After sitting in tehy parking lot the only CEL i get is the vtec spool solenoid which is 21.
Things ive checked:
1.Jumped the pump, and it runs just fine with power.
2.checked all the fuses.
3.This last time i check voltage to the pump and i get 3-4 volts for a split second as i turn the key to on and the relay clicks the 1st time. I can actually feel the pump shudder if my hand is on it when i do this but nothing else.
4.I have not checked spark because either way the pump has to work b4 spark matters.
5. Before i got the brand new relay i tested and resoldered the junkyard relay and the relays in it clicked when powered and grounded, tho i did not check coninuity where i should have. it still did not work
6. i visually inspected the thermostat ground tho i didnt take it off, it looked fine
The only thing i can think of now is the ignition switch or the ECU. Though im VERY open to suggestions.
Sorry about the long story but detail is important with problems like this
Modified by rsgard at 7:42 PM 11/26/2006
SKIP THE NEXT PART UNLESS YOUR BORED
After blowing my heater hose on the highway i patched it with electriclal tape and topped off the coolant and drove home about 15 miles. At home i replaced the heater hose and managed to spill a good amount of coolant all over the place. I let the car sit for about 15 minutes and when i go out to try and start it the pump isnt priming and the car turn everything else is fine plus i got a CEL 16 which is injectors and a o2 sensor heater code and vtec solenoid switch code, radio and headlights and stuff work. I go inside and read up and learn that the relay is a probable culprit. I go out and listen and hold onto the relay and it only click once when i turn the key to on, no off click and no start click. So i wait a few days go to a junkyard and get a new relay. Its been about 4 days at this point so i go home and pop the relay in and same thing, i pull up the back seat and pop off the plug to the pump and put a multimeter probes in there to test voltage and this time when iturn the key i get 3 volts for 2 seconds and the relay does all its clicks. I put the plug back on the pump and the pump primes and the car starts. I let it idle for 5 minutes or so to reset the ecu since i unpluged the bat. I get in it and drive 10 minutes and park for a couple hours. I get back in my car starts right up and drives for 3 minutes and cuts out. i roll to a stop and turn the key and listen for the pump and nothing, same thing as before 1st click of the relay and nothing else. I assume its the junkyard relay and order a breand new OEM relay, i get it and notice its not the soldered kind, its got 2 little black boxes in it so obviously its redesigned. It takes 4 days to get the relay and i pop itin my car and everything works and i drive away, 10 minutes later it dies while going about 60 miles an hour, no fuel. Only the first relay click no prime, this time i got a new CEL 14 which is electronic air control. Every time the car has died it ran perfectly fine before hand (even hit vtec both times) but at about the time the car has been fully warmed up for a few minutes it cuts out. So my car gets pulled to a parking lot and its sits there a few days, oen day when i got to check stuff i turn the key and i heard the pump prime, i wiggle some stuff and it still primes. i go to start it and click teh start isnt working, battery gets recharged at autozone and it still jsut clicks, i clean the contact and bam teh starter works just fine but the pump doesnt prime anymore?!. i clean ALL teh ground wires valve cover, transmission, adn thermostat, still no prime. relay checks out just fine, so does the ignition switch. After sitting in tehy parking lot the only CEL i get is the vtec spool solenoid which is 21.
Things ive checked:
1.Jumped the pump, and it runs just fine with power.
2.checked all the fuses.
3.This last time i check voltage to the pump and i get 3-4 volts for a split second as i turn the key to on and the relay clicks the 1st time. I can actually feel the pump shudder if my hand is on it when i do this but nothing else.
4.I have not checked spark because either way the pump has to work b4 spark matters.
5. Before i got the brand new relay i tested and resoldered the junkyard relay and the relays in it clicked when powered and grounded, tho i did not check coninuity where i should have. it still did not work
6. i visually inspected the thermostat ground tho i didnt take it off, it looked fine
The only thing i can think of now is the ignition switch or the ECU. Though im VERY open to suggestions.
Sorry about the long story but detail is important with problems like this
Modified by rsgard at 7:42 PM 11/26/2006
11-18-2006, 07:23 PM
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Re: ive got a good one for ya, electrical/wont start (rsgard)
check all your groundings. i had the same problem. my heater hose fell off because i forgot to tighten it. after i got the hose back on. the car drove fine for like 3 miles and die. car wouldn't start. took me almost a week to figure out the it was a lose ground. a bad ground can throw cel because it's not getting enough power to the ecu. btw, try shorten the story. hope that help
11-22-2006, 05:28 PM
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Re: ive got a good one for ya, electrical/wont start (rsgard)
OK here it goes simplified.
Today i cleaned up the ECU ground, the ground to the valve cover, but not the trans/chassis ground because i dont know where it is.
As of yesterday pump was priming but the power cable to the starter had corroded so it would just click, cleaned it and then no pump prime. Fidgeted with some stuff and then the pump primed, started the car and let it idle for about 6 minutes and it died as it was warming up. The pump works and so does the relay.
My igniton switch looks worn but there are no burn marks or anythign melted.
My questions is does a 94 gsr have some kind of imobiliser (sp?) or is it to old.
Also do any of the spark carrying ignition components control power to the fuel pump/injectors? aside from that it is either a wire somwhere or its the ECU
Today i cleaned up the ECU ground, the ground to the valve cover, but not the trans/chassis ground because i dont know where it is.
As of yesterday pump was priming but the power cable to the starter had corroded so it would just click, cleaned it and then no pump prime. Fidgeted with some stuff and then the pump primed, started the car and let it idle for about 6 minutes and it died as it was warming up. The pump works and so does the relay.
My igniton switch looks worn but there are no burn marks or anythign melted.
My questions is does a 94 gsr have some kind of imobiliser (sp?) or is it to old.
Also do any of the spark carrying ignition components control power to the fuel pump/injectors? aside from that it is either a wire somwhere or its the ECU
11-22-2006, 05:31 PM
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Re: ive got a good one for ya, electrical/wont start (rsgard)
If you cant see the tranny/chassis ground that might be the problem. Its should be right by the motor mount towards the front of the car.
11-22-2006, 05:44 PM
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Re: ive got a good one for ya, electrical/wont start (jfsrt4)
after i cleaned up the starter cable and the pump wouldnt prime, i got power to it again after taking and cleaning up the igniton switch, then the pump got power and the car started and ran till warm and died.
I plan on adding solder to the contacts in the ignition switch tomorow.
coould someone explain a little better where the trans/chasis ground is?
I plan on adding solder to the contacts in the ignition switch tomorow.
coould someone explain a little better where the trans/chasis ground is?
11-22-2006, 05:51 PM
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Re: ive got a good one for ya, electrical/wont start (rsgard)
Its right in front of the mount. Then just bolts to the side of the cars frame. the wires about 7 inchs long.
11-23-2006, 07:28 PM
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Re: no power to pump, relay and grounds ok, what next? (rsgard)
I went through today and cleaned up the trans ground. still nothing
So far from reading ive got 2 new things to check, the starter cable grounding to the casing and i still need to take a multimeter to the ignition wire ylw/blk
My prob in short, only 1 click from relay, for a split second the pump gets 3 volts then nothing, the relay is brand new and not a soldered kind. Starter works just fine. Randomly,usually after messing with something the car will prime and start only to die 10 minutes later. The last time it died i only got a CEL21 which is spool valve solenoid or something like that
When searching i found tons of posts of ppl in the same situation but none of them ever came back and actually said what was wrong and how it was fixed
Modified by rsgard at 9:35 PM 11/23/2006
Modified by rsgard at 2:52 AM 11/24/2006
So far from reading ive got 2 new things to check, the starter cable grounding to the casing and i still need to take a multimeter to the ignition wire ylw/blk
My prob in short, only 1 click from relay, for a split second the pump gets 3 volts then nothing, the relay is brand new and not a soldered kind. Starter works just fine. Randomly,usually after messing with something the car will prime and start only to die 10 minutes later. The last time it died i only got a CEL21 which is spool valve solenoid or something like that
When searching i found tons of posts of ppl in the same situation but none of them ever came back and actually said what was wrong and how it was fixed
Modified by rsgard at 9:35 PM 11/23/2006
Modified by rsgard at 2:52 AM 11/24/2006
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11-24-2006, 02:20 PM
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Re: no power to pump, relay and grounds ok, what next? (spikehairboy)
sounds like a fuel pump to me, can u try hooking up a fuel pressure gauge and seeing if u have a drop in pressure before it dies. however alot of people dont have the right gauge for this so check the following first.
If you not getting 12 volts to the pump for at least 3 seconds when in the "on" position, then you've got some electical problems, otherwise with the key in the "on" position, the pump will only come on for 3-5 seconds to prime and then turn back off, till the car is actually running, at which point the fuel pump should be getting a constant 12~volts. If this is not the case, then ur pump is fine and your next step would be to check everything electrical.
fuel pumps can work for alittle while then die as it can get hot when its running and just shut off till it cools off then run again.
If you not getting 12 volts to the pump for at least 3 seconds when in the "on" position, then you've got some electical problems, otherwise with the key in the "on" position, the pump will only come on for 3-5 seconds to prime and then turn back off, till the car is actually running, at which point the fuel pump should be getting a constant 12~volts. If this is not the case, then ur pump is fine and your next step would be to check everything electrical.
fuel pumps can work for alittle while then die as it can get hot when its running and just shut off till it cools off then run again.
11-24-2006, 05:13 PM
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Re: no power to pump, relay and grounds ok, what next? (JonGP4)
im 99% sure its not the fuel pump itself, ive tested the power into the pump with a multimeter and it gets 3 volts for a split second then nothing so its electrical
11-24-2006, 05:31 PM
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Re: no power to pump, relay and grounds ok, what next? (rsgard)
and ive got a brand new OEM relay and it is good.
Heres a question, what does the Ignition 1 wire (blk.ylw) power? there is an igniton kill hacked into it, i remember when i set off my alarm and tried to start it the car would crank but not start.
Anyway all electricals work i.e radio, windows, lights, blinkers... but not the pump, i dont think the ecu is getting power either because i tried jumping the pump once
Heres a question, what does the Ignition 1 wire (blk.ylw) power? there is an igniton kill hacked into it, i remember when i set off my alarm and tried to start it the car would crank but not start.
Anyway all electricals work i.e radio, windows, lights, blinkers... but not the pump, i dont think the ecu is getting power either because i tried jumping the pump once
11-26-2006, 02:48 PM
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Re: no power to pump, relay and grounds ok, what next? (rsgard)
figured out the problem but not why i have the problem.
Pin 2 from the Main relay is the constant ground and goes to the ECU. It had a charge of 4 volts flowing the wrong direction? The problem either lies with the ECU shorting it or there is a short somehwere under the dash. With my recent discovery that my wiring has been hacked and connected back together anything is possible. anyway i got the car to run by jumping pin 2 while the wires is still connected and grounding it to the chassis, the car runs fine now. I dont like it tho because there is voltage in the wrong place and somehow flowing in teh wrong direction?
To fix this problem for good im probably gonna be buying an all new interior harness for my car, if that doesnt fix it the problem lies with teh ECU and then i will replace that but im very uncomfortable driving around a car with tampered wiring
Modified by rsgard at 7:43 PM 11/26/2006
Pin 2 from the Main relay is the constant ground and goes to the ECU. It had a charge of 4 volts flowing the wrong direction? The problem either lies with the ECU shorting it or there is a short somehwere under the dash. With my recent discovery that my wiring has been hacked and connected back together anything is possible. anyway i got the car to run by jumping pin 2 while the wires is still connected and grounding it to the chassis, the car runs fine now. I dont like it tho because there is voltage in the wrong place and somehow flowing in teh wrong direction?
To fix this problem for good im probably gonna be buying an all new interior harness for my car, if that doesnt fix it the problem lies with teh ECU and then i will replace that but im very uncomfortable driving around a car with tampered wiring
Modified by rsgard at 7:43 PM 11/26/2006
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