b18bcoupe

Same colors. Just that they do not enter the ECM at that plug!!!!! Could it be that the wiring got messed with? It seems impossible. It was a stock teg that ran sweetly when I drove it around the block and then up my driveway.

Anyway, I think the issue here is that I KNOW the ECM is not pulsing the injectors correctly, or else they would be squirting gas.


When I tested for spark, I did notice that the spar seemed to disappear after a few rotations. It sparked strongly at first, then progressively weaker and then disappeared. I just put it down to me losing the earth on the spark plug pin. But maybe... I have to test again. If it is a weak spark and no injector pulse, then maybe the dizzy is bad? Can anyone chime in?

crzdmngz

Check the attachment, hope it helps.

fcm

Have you checked yet if you have 12V+ at IGP1 and IGP2, when ign. is on and cranking to start?
You must have 12V+ on both for engine to run.

Have you done a continuity test on the ECU/ECM leads, to the injectors yet? 94

b18bcoupe

No, have done neither of those things as I lacked two things: the actual pinouts on the 2000 Integra and an assistant Will get on it first thing in the morning, if I can figure out where IGP1 and 2 are.

b18bcoupe

crz, I know now why the pinouts you sent are different:

"This info is NOT available in the 1998 integra service manual, only the supplement. (just in case anyone reads this and goes to get the service manual and doesn't find all they were looking for....)"

from this thread

https://honda-tech.com/forums/acura-integra-type-r-8/obd-ii-99-02-itr-ecu-wiring-diagram-339871/




So the continuity test would tell me if any wires are broken, right? and IGP1 and IGP2 are supposed to have 12v wires going in them, correct?

b18bcoupe

So it looks like this frign car has a totally different ECU. P75 - C55. Has its own set of pinouts. 2000 Integra SE - Special Edition.

Does anyone here have the pinouts?

crzdmngz

Ah dayum that's too bad. I'll look for the manual when I have time.
I think IGP1 & IGP2 are brown with black line, is that correct FCM?

b18bcoupe

IGP1 and IGP2 may well be yellow/black in my car. They both carry 12v going in to the ECU.

Continuity check shows injector to ECM wiring is unbroken on all 4 injectors.



An interesting symptom to add, that has now been confirmed: When I am testing for spark: The sparks only last for a few cycles before cutting out totally. When it's sparking, it sounds like it wants to start. Once the spark is dead, it's just grinding around on empty. And it only seems to want to do the sparking/starting thing when I have one plug out and grounded on the block or chassis. Weird.


sooooo.... bad relay? bad ECM?

fcm

Not sure about a 2000 Integra, but on 90- 98 Integras it's yellow/black, and the only two yellow/black leads at the ECU/ECM.

Check for voltage at the distributor, [black/yellow] with ign. switch on, and when CRANKING TO START.

Also, redo, [do not just check] the main grounds, [batt. post and cable clamp, batt. to chassis ground, chassis to engine ground] don't forget the VC to rad support ground. 94

b18bcoupe

OK. Will do all of the above. So the IGPs get voltage. I am sure those were the wires I checked. Good.

Will report back.




(BTW just to eliminate the obvious today I tried a new distributor, clean fuel filter, a new fuel pump.)

el crapitan

it seems pretty clear from your first couple posts that the injectors are receiving power, but no ground, since when you were checking for pulse with your dvom you were supplying your own ground (to the shock tower) and did get a pulse. when checking for pulse, just install a 194 marker bulb, with the tangs folded out, into the injector connector. if they don't pulse, you've confirmed power to them with the dvom, problem should be a ground issue.

el crapitan

and i think the pcm pinout is different on a 2000 because the tach signal goes through the pcm, instead of directly off the igniter in the distributor. that's one difference anyways.

what happens when you check for codes? do you get a solid cel? or nothing at all?

crzdmngz

That's a clever idea! I will be retaining that trick tip.

Back on topic:
Any updates b18bcoupe?

el crapitan

pretty known little trick. it's good too cuz you can see the bulb flash while sitting in the drivers seat. and, of course, the bulb puts a load on the circuit, so it's more accurate

b18bcoupe

Thanks guys for all your input. Sorry for leaving you hanging for a few days_I have had a crapload of other stuff to take care of, and haven't even had time to try ground cleaning if you can believe that.

so, grounds are cleaned - from battery post to shock tower, from vc to rad support, from transmission to frame rail and from ECU to thermostat housing. Have I missed any?

Now to try if she will start, and to test for voltage at distributor. Will report today.

b18bcoupe

IT RUNNNNSSSS!!! ITT RUNNNNNNNSSSSS!!!!



And sounds very, very smooth.

so here's the trick for any future people reading this and having the same symptoms:

What you really, really need to do is - while you are unplugging stuff to try and see what works and what doesn't - to remember to replace the green plug that goes into the little ignition box around the key barrel. I unplugged it very early on in the battle to get the car started. I remember unplugging it, but can't quite recall the reason. I think I was either just trying stuff or I was making slack for moving the fusebox to get at the plugs on top. Maybe I was thinking the immobilizer circuit had something to do with the car not starting.

Anyway... yeah. So... In the end, I don't actually know what caused the initial no start condition, but I sure as hell know what caused it for most of the time since.

Nevermind; I have learned SOOO much from this experience and from you guys's experience. I hope the thread will help others with taking the correct steps to diagnose their genuine electrical starting problems.

And on the bright side, I bet I have the cleanest injectors, fuel filter, spark plugs, and grounds of any Civic/Integra in a ten mile radius! That cannot harm.

b18bcoupe

... And now on to some boasting about my full chassis harness swap and custom motormount. Pics and bragging will follow in a new thread. Just hang tight, as I have a Porsche 944 to re-head gasket up and sell before the end of the month which is move day.

Thanks again guys!! Thanks to fcm for guiding me through the rigorous trouble shooting method and hanging in there for so long to keep me on track... Thanks crz for manual screenshots and moral support... and to everyone else who contributed.

fcm

Thanks for coming back with what the problem was, most guys that make a simple mistake can't admit to it, we just never hear from them again, so no help for anyone, the above will help someone or like you said, guide then in the right direction.

Glad you got it running, time for a . 94

b18bcoupe

Yup. Time for one of those.

crzdmngz

b18bcoupe

LOL! nice.

crzdmngz

Can't Wait!!!


No Problem bro.