JUN1OR

Howdy folks,

I just had my local honda dealer install some crower stage 1's in my 94 gsr. When I got it back, it runs like complete ***. It runs fine on part throttle, but anything over 40% throttle and it bogs, like a bad plug or wire.

They won't fix it either, they refuse because I have a vafc and other mods. Basically it worked before I sent it to them, now it really hesitates and really jerks around now.

Here is the parts list that the dealer installed:
Crower stage 1 cams for B18c1
oem water pump
oem timing belt
oem tensioner pulley
ps belt
ac belt
alt belt

I tried pulling the ecu power and resetting it, no change. My vafc was bone stock before I brought it there, and remains that way now.

I have yet to check the following and I need more ideas guys!

1.) timing - could be retarded a lot
2.) plug wires - could have a bad connection
3.) plugs - they have 10k miles
4.) cap and rotor
5.) broken sensors


There are no c.e.l.'s. No codes, I don't get it....


Modified by JUN1OR at 3:54 PM 10/26/2004


Modified by JUN1OR at 7:18 PM 10/26/2004

DragSource

Did you do any tuning after the install?

I would throw a wideband o2 in it and check everything out. . . I wouldn't recommend romping on it either until it's properly tuned.

Just out of curiosity - when you say, Stage 1 - which cams are you referring to. . . I didn't think Crower used stages for their cams?

Also - if your new cams have higher lift than OEM, you may want to consider buying the matching valvesprings to avoid binding of the factory valvesprings.

DohcVtecCrx

first things I'd check would be ur timing marks, make sure the cam gears and crank or all ligned up to TDC, next I'd check and make sure the map sensor and the tps sensor plugs are not switched around. If that all checks out I'd find a performance shop and have them degree those cams. crower usually wants there cams degreed w a degree wheel and adj cam gears but it should be fine if it is all at TDC

JUN1OR

Crower 63401 cams is what was installed. nothing too crazy at all...

Cam gears are stock. I have a nice timing gun and i'm about to check it right now.

I did have itr springs and retainers ready for install, but the dealership said they would have to remove the head. They didn't have that nifty snapon tool that everyone is raving about here on h/t... doh...

Anyway, I have some updates.

It runs fine when cold, no hesitation. Once the motor warms up, then it jerks when giving it some throttle. It feels like I'm fouling out a plug. I'm about to inspect the plugs and timing in 5 minutes and I'll post the results.

Thanks for the idea's guys and keep them coming!

non-VTEC

that sounds pretty weird.......sounds like possibly a fuel/ignition issue.....i dont think the cam install is bad?

does it idle good/bad? does it hesitate when your in our out of VTEC?

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

WTF you pay them to install stuff but they won't stand behind their work and fix what they F'd up?

and this my friends is why no mechanic other than myself has come near my car in the 3.5 yrs and 90K miles I've owned it.

JUN1OR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PatrickGSR94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WTF you pay them to install stuff but they won't stand behind their work and fix what they F'd up?

and this my friends is why no mechanic other than myself has come near my car in the 3.5 yrs and 90K miles I've owned it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I wholehearitly(sp?) agree. This is the first time I've sent it in to the dealer. ever. I
And the last.

UPDATES:

Spark plugs look fair. I won't say good.

timing is next.

Any good way to check plug wires?

JUN1OR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by non-VTEC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">that sounds pretty weird.......sounds like possibly a fuel/ignition issue.....i dont think the cam install is bad?

does it idle good/bad? does it hesitate when your in our out of VTEC?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Idle is perfect. It hesitates at &gt;40% throttle roughly. Mainly when there is larger load on the motor.

Doesn't matter if vtec is engages or not.

The mechanic that did the cam install has done many. he is a h/t member too. I don't really know him or anything, but he sounded like he knew what he was doing.

BlackOnBlackTeggie

sounds like the timing belt is a tooth off, check that

PissedoffGS-R

Werd. When you say 40% throttle it makes me think thats probablly when the ECU is seeing the (give or take) 40% throttle and is probaly making Timeing adjustments though the belts probably off so its not the right timeing setting for that throttle position at that time. I could be wrong but thats seems like what might be hapening. Stumbles at ignition adjustments via the ECU. I would really looks at that timeing belt. And cam gears and what not.

JUN1OR

Thanks for your input guys.

Plugs were fair, timing was off a little(1 or 2 deg), but alas, I found the problem...

Bad plug wire. Resistance on wire #3 was insanely high...

I knew it had something to do with spark, so instead of replacing everthing at once, I simply replaced one thing at a time. I reused the old plugs temporarily, but replaced the wires with new ones. Voila, works like new.

Here is a picture of the old plugs.



The bad bad wires....




The new wires. They said NASCAR, so I knew they were winners. Kidding. My buddy laughed his *** off when he heard I bought NASCAR plug wires. Hey it was between the valuespark $13.99 wires, yes $14 wires, or the 7mm Borg/Warner NASCAR sponsored wires for $44.99. Hmm.... not many options at 8pm on a weekday.



PS - Another to Gustman Honda in Appleton, WI for this fine miss - the top bolt to the distributor was ready to fall off. I'm surprised it stayed on there, it was just barely hanging there. This was in addition to the spark plug wire that wasn't even "clicked" on when I first picked up my car from the dealer. I mean - how do you miss these things?

Anyway... Thanks to all for their input. Case closed.

Junior

wreckedmyteg

NASCAR plug wires.....HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

Convoy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JUN1OR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


The new wires. They said NASCAR, so I knew they were winners. Kidding. My buddy laughed his *** off when he heard I bought NASCAR plug wires. Hey it was between the valuespark $13.99 wires, yes $14 wires, or the 7mm Borg/Warner NASCAR sponsored wires for $44.99. Hmm.... not many options at 8pm on a weekday.



PS - Another to Gustman Honda in Appleton, WI for this fine miss - the top bolt to the distributor was ready to fall off. I'm surprised it stayed on there, it was just barely hanging there. This was in addition to the spark plug wire that wasn't even "clicked" on when I first picked up my car from the dealer. I mean - how do you miss these things?

Anyway... Thanks to all for their input. Case closed.

Junior</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL!!!!!!!!
NGK is the only way to go

IloveAPC

NGK Lazer Platinum only way to roll

BrianZ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Convoy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

LOL!!!!!!!!
NGK is the only way to go </TD></TR></TABLE>

OEM!

Sack Master

HAHA. I'm probably the biggest NASCAR fan that posts on h-t but I would still never buy those wires. I can tell you now that Jeff Gordon is not running those wires on his monte carlo. But hey at least you fixed the problem.
BTY I would go with MSD wires myself. But its all an opinion. Less resistence is what I look for.

17GSR17

It shouldnt make a difference but why didnt you take it too Acura dealer instead of Honda dealer. It is the same motor company but I have seen a lot of posts that involve a gsr or ls going into a Honda dealer and coming out worse unlike some that have taken it to acura and turn up ok. Just a thought, I have no real proof but I wouldnt want to fix another dealers car.

.water

NGK blue or OEM works best..u dont need pricy plug wires..ngk and OEM will work just fine

.water

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 17GSR17 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It shouldnt make a difference but why didnt you take it too Acura dealer instead of Honda dealer. It is the same motor company but I have seen a lot of posts that involve a gsr or ls going into a Honda dealer and coming out worse unlike some that have taken it to acura and turn up ok. Just a thought, I have no real proof but I wouldnt want to fix another dealers car.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i think ur right..even its honda engine..they might have problems..like last time i went honda for oil change..they didnt know what kind engine oil to put on my car..hahahaha

wreckedmyteg

Our nearest Acura dealer is over two hours away (Milwaukee or Madison).

Honda is the next best thing.

Copy Cat

i dont think that there would be any difference with what dealer did the work. The c1 is pretty similar to a b16.

InfamousDC2FI

NASCAR oWnS JoOOOO!!!!

JUN1OR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by InfamousDC2FI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">NASCAR oWnS JoOOOO!!!! </TD></TR></TABLE>



Add 15+whp for NASCAR wires. Wanna see dyno? No joke!

It's not a 3 cylinder anymore at least...

4DooRGiSzer

why would you take it to a dealership?? how much did you have to pay for install?

4DooRGiSzer

oh and did you just get cams? or springs retainers, cam gears???