2G0S0R1

I just finished installing the omnipower coilover kit on my GSR, and the springs are just as soft as my old ones (arospeed). I have had "bottoming out" problems for a long time... and wanted to get rid of it at all costs.

I got camber kits, checked for clearance around all suspenion parts, installed Ground control upper extended shock mounts, put alot of new bushings on... and none of it made a difference, then I got new coilovers and it didnt stop it.

My car seems to bottom out on alot of bumps, more than it should considering im only dropped about 1" with these coilovers. I put one of the front lower control arms on the jack without th wheel on to get a first hand view of how it all worked while i simulated road conditions to that wheel by raising/lowering the jack. I noticed that when I drop the car those springs dont have to much more to compress without binding... I mean wtf, the springs are that small/soft? on both sets of coilovers I had?

I jacked up that wheel a bit more to simulate a bump and the spring fully compresses... BOTTOMED OUT style. The rest of the suspension could move like an enitre 1.5" before there was and issues.

I need to lower the perches on the coilovers and get some springs with some more travel, while still being adjustable. I need something like in between a coilover spring and a lowering spring. That would solve all my problems, do any of you know where I can get something like this?

And do alot of people have problems with their springs bottoming out and the rest of the stuff (upper control arms/shocks/swaybars) having plenty of room?

Please post any comments, thoughts.

dukers

i noticed in your sig that you have the sleeves paired with illuminas. what setting are your shocks at? if theyre set towards the softer side im guessing they just cant handle the 8k spring rate. im riding with the same sleeves on koni reds, and my car used to bottom out/bouce like crazy until i set the shocks to nearly the stiffest setting. it seems like it could still use stiffer shocks, but the ride is much better than it was before. i dont think you mentioned anything about the shock settings, so maybe try stiffening the hell outta em?

2G0S0R1

running 4/4... had it on 4/3 and though higher might help. They go to 5 and im sure it would make it stiffer and possibly help, but wouldnt it make more sense to get a longer/stiffer spring and then lower the sleeves (seems like all that extra sleeve is being wasted because im never gonna slam it that low)

I want more suspension travel, and i can get it with a better spring. I wonder what else would fit on those omni sleeves/GC topmounts. Im sure alot of different springs will. I am searching for info on 8 and 9" springs instead of the 7"(I think) that come with them. Maybe some from a tsx coilover kit or an accord or something heavier.

dukers

gotcha. yeah the fact that the springs are really short cuts down the shock travel significantly. for me simply stiffening the shocks fixed my bottoming out/bouncy problems. for whatever reasons it just sounds like you need taller springs. good luck with your search, and lemme know what you come up with.

2G0S0R1

Pretty cheap to try out a set... I guess I will measure mine and see what size I should get.

Do the item #s on this website (http://www.ground-control-stor.../CA=3) corrospond to the spring rates, along with size and length? This could be the answer Ive been looking for.

2G0S0R1

Im thinking 8" instead of 7", and with a 2.5 ID and 400-475lb/in rate to fix my problem. ???

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

Wait so you're saying that the weight of the car is able to FULLY compress the spring so that all coils touch each other??? That should never happen under any circumstances. Are these Omni full coilovers? Are these the springs that came with them?

Sounds to me like the springs are both too soft, and too short.

I used to have Koni Ground Controls with 380 lb/in 8" long springs in front, and 450 lb/in 7" long springs in back, and I never ever bottomed out, even with the tires slightly tucked in the fenders. I don't even have any dents in my shock towers like you see on some cars that have been slammed too much.

Definitely change those springs, I would say go with Eibach Race Springs (custom lengths and rates, anything you want), you can see their full catalog on the Ground Control website.


Modified by PatrickGSR94 at 1:31 PM 7/18/2005

SMZ GSR

Are you sure your shocks aren't blown?

Aside from that I just wouldn't use the Omni coils.

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

I don't think it has anything to do with the shocks, I think his springs are just wayyyyyy under-sized for the weight of the car... sounds like they're almost acting like tender springs (those light springs on coilovers that keep everything from rattling around under full droop, but are fully compressed under the weight of the car).

2G0S0R1

Running these (http://www.omnipowerusa.com/Pr...r.asp) on Illuminas currently set at 4/4.

They are 7" springs with about a 450lb/in rate for the front.

When i set the car down, the spring has only half the unloaded height from the weight of the car. Then when i "simulate" a bump the top coils all touch and the bottom few are like 1mm apart. Im sure when im hitting big cali bumps that springs are fully compressing and stopping my shock travel = BOOM/THUDDD!

Using the adjustments on my shocks makes a difference in ride, so I dont think they are blown. Im using the extended strut hats too so there is definitely no bottoming out shock-wise. I did the zip-tie on the shock rod thing and ive got like an inch of travel to go after the spring bottoms out.

I need a longer spring so I can have the 450lb/in rate over a longer distance before coil binding correct?

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

That doesn't sound right at all. Let's say you have 1500 lbs. on the front wheels. Ideally that's 750 lbs. on each front wheel (not in reality, as corner weights always differ). 750 lbs. should compress the spring less than 2", so the spring should still be over 5" tall with the weight of the car on the springs.

Are all 4 springs the same length? Are you sure you put the 450's in front? If you're sure you installed the springs on the correct end, then I would highly question the rates of the springs you received.

Also how are you simulating bumps? A bump compresses the suspension more than when the car is at rest, but only for a second, before it returns to normal. How are you compressing the suspension to simulate where it would be when hitting a bump?

Can you post some pics of the actual parts on your car and how they're behaving?

2G0S0R1

http://www.ground-control-stor...CA=50

Im thinking these will fit fine and do the trick...

1 more inch of non-binding travel and 9% stiffer just in case.

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

Shoot, you really don't need that high of a spring rate unless you just want it for handling purposes. Like I said I was running Ground Controls on Koni shocks with 380 lb. 8" springs in front and had no problems whatsoever.

Again, are you sure you didn't put the 3xx lb. springs in front? Are they also 7"? If so that could explain your problems.

If you installed them correctly, I would first suggest contacting Omnipower before you drop another $120 on another pair of springs.

2G0S0R1

Ill try to get some pics next time I have a chance to mess with it.

What Im doing EXACTLY:

Taking off front wheel and putting jack under the LCA, setting the height to where that control arm is when the tire is on so that I can fully see the spring in its normal height when the car is sitting on the ground (its pretty compressed).

Then jacking up that side a bit to add more pressure to that spring, but not enough to pull any of the other wheels off the ground. I know this is a bad representastion of a bump because it is constant pressure, but a bump being momentary should push it even harder.

Then as I jack it up I start to see the coils touch each other 1 by 1....

I want to have more spring travel so my entire suspension will travel farthur, I have alot of clearance EVERYWHERE ELSE but between those spring coils.

I mean, my car cant be that heavy... if I figure 65% of the ~2700lbs is in the front, then that is about 1700 lbs... 850/spring... should travel near 2 inches. That doesnt leave much for bumps and stuff considering the spring seems to bind around 3 or 3.5 inches of compression.

I think all these companies use 6 or 7" springs so they can advertise the 0-4.5" drops and such. I dont need that big of a drop, so if I used 8" springs it would only allow for maybe up to a 3" drop (still way more than I need) and would have more spring travel.

2G0S0R1

Ok, how about I throw the 7" 450lb's in the back and get some 8" 425's for the front. Ive heard this can help my handling, and the longer spring should do the trick.

Almost wish I could find some 8.5" springs, 9" wont fit. The longer the better to me in terms of non-binding travel.

**YES, I installed them correctly, both are 7" springs and the rears are designated with a 6... for something like 350lb/in. You can see that the front coils are thicker also. I put the "8"'s in the front.

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

I think 8" springs are pretty standard. GC told me that 7" would be too short for the front of my car. I believe GC's standard kits come w/ 8" springs.

As for putting the jack under the control arm (I assume the car is on jackstands), you have to lift the jack until that corner just barely comes off the jackstand. At that time you have the weight of the car on the suspension.

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2G0S0R1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, how about I throw the 7" 450lb's in the back and get some 8" 425's for the front. Ive heard this can help my handling, and the longer spring should do the trick.

Almost wish I could find some 8.5" springs, 9" wont fit. The longer the better to me in terms of non-binding travel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You should first determine for sure that your front springs are indeed 450 lb/in. To me it sounds like they are indeed NOT 450 lb/in.

2G0S0R1

I was using 2 jacks, and when I had the jack under the control arm... all there was was 3 wheels and and that jacked up LCA holding up the car. I also made sure the car was level like when it sits normally (I measured where the center of the hub is when the tire is on)

2G0S0R1

Talked to omni, they dont seem to know whats going. I ordered some 8" 425lb/in to replace the 7" 448s. I hope this will yeild another .8 or .9 inches before binding.

I am going to try to take some pics tonight to show you all what im talking about.

C ya then.

dukers

im still confused why youre having so much trouble with your set up and mine is doing fine. maybe you got some defective springs?

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

I still say he may have put the springs on backwards... 336 lb/in at only 7" long can't be too nice for the front. Those would compress probably 3-4" under the at-rest weight of the car's front end, I wouldn't doubt some binding might occur there.

Integras really need 8" springs for the front, no matter what the spring rate.

dukers

yea maybe so, cause the omni springs are the same length front and back, only differ in the 8 and 6 stamping. i deff agree on integras needing longer springs than these omnis.

2G0S0R1

OK, here are some pics...

1st... The car jacked up/suspension free hanging:



2nd... Positioning the car on 3 wheels and a jack(under drivers front LCA):



3rd... Now a pic of the suspension resting at my regular ride height:



4th... Pics of the suspension while hitting(simulated) a bump/dip/wavy road etc... :







CLUNK!

And this is all while not being that low at all, look at my gap!:



The strut still has almost 2 inches of piston travel left, the UCA has enough room for my hand to fit all the way around... there is nothing stopping my suspension but the springs themselves.

BTW... I KNOW FOR A FACT THE FRONTS ARE THE 450lb/in's. The "8" designates them and the rears are "6"s. The coils are much thicker than the rears also. Im not a dumbass... I wouldnt have screwed that up. EVER! hahah...

I wil let the pics speak for themselves... I have the eibach 8" 425lb/in springs in the mail now to finally put a stop to this BS bottoming out (or at least get me some more travel)

Lemme know what you all think...

PatrickGSR94

iTrader: (1)

There is absolutely no way those are 450 lb/in springs, regardless of whatever stampings or labels are on them. They just can't be. My 380 lb/in springs never got anywhere near looking like that.

2G0S0R1

I have notified Dave at omnipower about this but they only say:

It is something else, we have never had problems before.

I dunno, but yeah these springs seem a bit soft eh?