ALF

I've been reading a couple of older posts about camber & alignments after lowering your car. Everyone says that the toe settings are the most important (which I agree with), but the census is torn between either getting a camber kit to correct the negative camber or leaving the negative camber since the toe settings are what are most important.

What are the cold hard facts? How much does negative camber really effect tire wear?

InstantRamen

On a stock 195 width tire, you won't see significant wear from negative camber if you rotate tires regularly. I'm talking about up to -2 degrees. But if you're running wider rims, a camber kit will help the wider tires.

ALF

Okay, this is a little off the topic at hand:

What exactly happens when you get your car aligned (what do they do?)? Can getting a wheel alignment correct some of the negative camber or is it strictly toe settings that are corrected?

ALF

Are regular tire rotations the key to preserving tire wear when negative camber is present?

dubster99

So then is getting a camber kit good or bad?? I have a 97 LS dropped on H&R sports, rolling on 205/40/17 Paradas. Would i need a camber kit?? I noticed that the inside of the front tires were a little worn, so i switched them to the back.

Asahi

I will see if I can shed some of my recently discovered light on things . . .

First my opinions:

If you auto-x/track your car and drive it on the street -2 degrees of camber is a good target but a max target at that.

If you drive your car, race once a year or just drag race then your camber should be more like -1 degree or less.

Toe on a aut-x/street car should be about . . .
Front: 1/8" total Toe OUT
Rear: ZERO Toe

ok, now for some facts.

First a Honda has NO adjustment in anything but toe when it comes from the factory. THe adjsuable settings that are NOT available are camber and caster.

Tire wear si a factor of all of the above mentioned factors. Caster is one of the leat important as it happens in the plane of the road.

TOE is this / \ if you are looking down at the TOP of your car.

Camber is this / \ is you are looking at the FRONT of your car. (the little pic shows what would be called negative camber)

Camber alone will not wear out tires even at -2 degress and as mentioned tire rotation can prevent excessive tire wear.

Toe is commonly overlooked as something that causes excessive premature tire wear.

The combination of bad toe settings and a good amount of negative camber can cause tires to show wear in as little at 400-500 miles.


I persoanlly run -1.9 to -2.1 degrees negative camber on my car. I have no camber kit at this point with no tire wear problems. I have 1/8"Total (1/16" each wheel) toe OUT in the front and Zero Toe in the rear on my Type-R. I don't have a camber kit but if I did I would buy an adjustable kit that allowed me to add modre negative as well as positive camber to my car so I could even the settings to all be equal around -1.9 or -2.0.


What are the advantages?

Negative cmaber causes bettere road hold ability.
Toe out on the fromt helps with better turn in in tight turns
Zero or Toe OUT in the rear causes oversteer (Soem stockintegras can actually use a slight bit of Toe out to cause oversteer without a larger swaybar or sprinsg)


I have been reseraching this heavily in the last 4 months since I Installed my TEIN HA's. I had them corner balanced and the alignment setup and it makes a world of difference.

Trey

137

so I can adjust my toe without any spiffy aftermarket kits, and I can adjust my camber with a caber kit.

ok sweet deal, i need to get one bad. i am getting this cupping on my 17x7 with a 42 mm offset.

Smurf

What is the reality of front camber kits destroying axles by pulling on the inboard joint?

Fooman

Teken: Basically, this is my first time hearing about camber kit having any affect on the axle. However, the subject of camber kits affecting the axle is being discussed at H-A.net.
Here's the link:
http://www.honda-acura.net/forums/sh...threadid=39903

jonsteR

It's dicussed here too... https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=59647

jonsteR

Uhmmm who is your question directed to?

137

one of you will have to come to my work, because i cannot find the will to shoot myself. answer the freakin questions just dont shoot off some I have aquired this s h i t knowledge please refrain from camber kits and keep the car stock crap.

ingrate

got another question to throw in here while we're at it.. most people i know simply buy the camber kit, install it, then go get an alignment. my question is, how do you know just exactly how much neg. camber you have without the readings from the alignment shop? don't you need to know how much neg. camber you have before you install the kit? :confused:

will any alignment shop give me readings for a small fee?

Fooman

Teken: Well, I guess the question for me is how do camber kits actually correct negative camber? I bought a set, but haven't had it installed yet.

I think someone mentioned that it does something in pulling the inboard joints apart or setting the wheels further apart from each other, thus adding more stress to the axle.

I don't know if this is true since I don't know how the camber kit works exactly except that it corrects +/- camber.

In7egrity: The install shop where I'm going has an alignment machine so I'm guessing they will align and adjust toe and check how much camber is off before they correct it. And then align it again after installation of the camber kit to make sure everything is right.

But then again, depending on what you want...you may not want it corrected close to stock if you want "some" negative camber for better handling.

Asahi

camber is how far the wheels leans in our out of the wheel well so to speak.
In the front it will push the upper A arm out to make the wheel stand more upright. This in turn will move the bottom of the wheel inward. This could cause pressure on the axels but I doubt it is a measurable difference.

As for measuring alignment first . . .If you are going to measure camber before you install a camber kit to "check" the camber then you really should have it done before you actually buy the kit. If you have what you consider acceptable camber then save your money. If your camber is farther out of spec than you would like get a kit and have the camber dialed in.

jonsteR

Teken: acutally, am not saying camber kit destroys the axles but i wanted to know if they do that's all. So am in need of answers too.

dustin

With a little trig and a ruler/straightedge you can estimate camber in degrees.

Dustin

Rory Breaker

Just to toss in my .02..all this information is extremely well-put IMO!!

Also, Im dropped around 2" with a bit over 2deg neg camber and have no wear problems whatsoever. This on 195...I assume jumping to 205's may cause some wear to show.

Go Mifune

i've found the tire wear with eibach sportlines (and koni yellow) to be tolerable. as far as handling i guess i don't know what i'm missing, but i can tell you that i'm digging my 21mm skunk2 rear sway.

uh, this is with 205/45r16


[Modified by Go Mifune, 11:51 AM 8/15/2001]

ALF

Go Mifune: Do you happen to know how much negative camber you have?

Go Mifune

i have all the numbers, both before and after alignment but not with me

DR. ON POINT

i DO ALIGNMENTS AT MY WORK AND I CAN I TELL U THAT U NEED ONE AFTER U LOWER UR CAR. aCTUALY U NEED A ALIGNMENT AFTER U TOUCH ANYTHING ON THE SUSPENSION. JUST GET AN ALIGNMENT, QUIT BEING CHEAP

Go Mifune

THANKS FOR THE HOT TIP THOUGH NOT EXACTLY "ON POINT"

DR. ON POINT

DONT HAVE TO BE AN ******* SHMUCK.....

Go Mifune

sorry, but his question was "How much does negative camber really effect tire wear?" not "should i get an alignment." i don't understand why you called him cheap...