tjdd91ls

I've been reading the threads on here trying to see if anyone else has had the same issues as me. So far, I haven't been able to figure it out. I have a stock 91 integra ls 5 speed that died on me last week. Hopefully someone here has dealth with a similar issue? Was running good, then I changed the distributor cap and rotor because the distributor cap shocked the hell out of me if I touched it when the car was running. After the new cap and rotor the car had an idle surge but only when it was cold, but didn't shock anymore. I was able to drive the car about 100 miles, then one day I started it for a few seconds then it kind of bogged down, then died. Had the car towed home and have been trouble shooting for the last week. Basically will crank but no spark. The latest issue is when I hook the battery up my radiator fan comes on? Not sure what the issue is. Based on some of the issues I have read on here, this is what I have done so far. Please keep in mind I am in no way a mechanic, but I do kinda enjoy working on cars. So far:

Checked for spark at the plug - NO SPARK
Sprayed starter fluid in the intake - no change
Checked all grounds and fuses - good - still no spark
Replaced coil with new one from Oreilly - still no spark
Replaced entire distributor (coil, icm, and whatever else is in there) with new one from Oreilly - still no spark
Checked ECU for codes and only get 1 fast flash when I turn the key on and 1 flash when I turn the key off

No CEL. CEL comes on for 2 seconds when I turn the key on. Fuel pump comes on ( I hear the buzz for about 3 seconds)

Seems that all the other electrical stuff works.

And the latest thing...I completely disconected my pos and neg battery terminals and removed my battery for better access. When I put the battery back in and hook it up, my radiator fan randomly comes on?? The engine is NOT warm as it is about 45 degrees outside and it hasn't ran for almost a week. Still cranks but no spark.

I'm thinking maybe a bad ECU or ignition switch? Anybody else have any ideas what this might be? Any help or suggestions is GREATLY appreciated! Thanks!

el crapitan

check the blk/ylw tracer wire at the distributor connector for 12v with the key on.
if no power there, trace it back to the ecm and check for it there. if you still don't have 12v there, replace the ecm

el crapitan

for the rad fan issue, check resistance of eot sensor. see if it's within spec

tjdd91ls

Thanks el crapitan. I'll check that out and go from there. Any clue what would cause my fan to come on all the sudden when I hook my battery back up? Forgot to mention in my first post, but I've only had the car a couple weeks, so really have no idea what the history of it is.

tjdd91ls

Just saw your post about my fan. I type too slow and missed you posting it! Thanks! Just seems kind of odd that my fan was fine before, now it comes on when I hook up my battery. I was thinking this was somehow connected to my no spark issue.

el crapitan

the eot sensor is the main input for the rfcm (rad fan control module), assuming this is a usdm integra (cdm integras never used the rfcm). if it's reading hot all the time, that's your problem.
try this; disconnect the eot sensor. if the fan stops coming on, the eot sensor is the problem. if the fan stays on, check the eot wiring for a short to ground

tjdd91ls

Well, I went out and hooked my battery back up so I could check the fan issue, and the fan didn't come on. Guess that part is fixed! LOL. Now only if my spark issue would fix itself. Done messing with it for tonight. Thanks el crapitan for your help. I'll see if my distributor has power tomorrow.

fcm

For spark, test the black/yellow at the distributor assembly with the ign. switch in BOTH the run and start position. a bad ign. switch can cause you to have power on the black/yellow in run position but not in the start position.94

tjdd91ls

Thanks fcm. I'll make sure I check it with the key in both positions. Hopefully I'll have a few minutes tonight after work to check it out.

tjdd91ls

Also, the distributor that I took off had a model number TD 24U on it, but my new one that I replaced it with says TD 23U. I double checked with the parts guy at Oreilly who confirmed that his computer showed that TD 23U was the correct distributor. Is it possible that the one I had on originally was wrong? Or did I get the wrong new one?

tjdd91ls

Never mind. After a quick search I found out my answer. Looks like either one will work. I know, I know...Search Noob, Search!!

tjdd91ls

Ok, so I checked for 12 volts at the distributor blk/ylw wire in both the run and start position. I have 12 volts with the key on, then when I crank it to start it drops to 10 volts. Is that what it should do or should it stay a consistent 12 volts while cranking?

Also, now my ecu is showing a 15 code. I need to go look that up but is this because it might be because I had my distributor unplugged to test the power.

Thanks for all the help guys. I really appreciate it!

el crapitan

ahh code 15. this is good. ignition output signal.
this would be the ylw/grn tracer wire. it runs from the icm to the ecm. check for output signal at the distributor connector. if you have signal there (which you probably will, seeing as how it's a brand new distributor), check for it at the ecm. if no signal at ecm, find the open in the wire and repair. if signal at ecm, replace the ecm. or you could instead test the wire for continuity between the ecm and the distributor, if you prefer.

and to answer your question, yes. 10v is normal while cranking.

the problem is either going to be an open or short in the output signal wire, or the ecm itself.
quick question; when cranking, does the tach move at all? or is it dead still? i bet it doesn't budge

tjdd91ls

Ok, el crapitan, I will try this next. Here are my thoughts though...If I had the blk/ylw wire unplugged at the distributor while checking for power, there would not be any output signal in the ylw/grn wire; therefore throwing the code 15? Now when I plug the two wire plug back into the distributor it will probably not throw the code and will show an output signal on the ylw/grn wire. I will confirm this tonight, but thats what my limited electrical mind is thinking.

The more and more I think about this, I'm thinking I might have a short somewhere or some other type of funky Gremlin. Last night, my son and I went over things again. He was driving the car in the short week or so that we had it before we lost spark. He tells me that the rear defroster and cruise control did not work. I had the issue with the radiator fan randomly coming on when I hooked up my battery, as I mentioned in an earlier post. I was able to get ahold of a wiring diagram and these are all components that are labled with a blk/ylw wire. Now, I am not an electrician and in no way claim to be, but wouldn't all those things be in the same circuit if they are all a blk/ylw wire? Additionally, el crapitan, you mentioned a ylw/grn wire. When I look inside my fuse box under the hood I see a ylw/grn wire that goes to a plug in that fuse box. The plug itself is pretty crusty and the wire just looks like it has been messed with or added at one point. It is not in any of the wire looms and is just one wire by itself. I haven't followed it to see if it eventually gets inside an existing loom or not, or where it goes. Now, it could be a coincidence that all these things just do not work, and it could be totally unrelated. This is why I look to you experts.

One other little bit of info...the person we bought this car from mentioned that at one point his blinkers would just randomly blink when he turned his lights on. He said this was a while ago and he checked into it for a while, but eventually they just started working the right way and he claims he didn't do anything.

With this new info, should I beging to look for a short in my wires somewhere? If so, what would be the best plan to tackle this? Or, is there more testing of other things I should do first (like check my ylw/grn wire for output signal, etc.), to completely rule out any faulty component? None of the wires look to be all hacked up or seriously messed with (although I do see some electrical tape near the two wire plug with the blk/ylw wire at the distributor), but I really have no idea who did what to this car prior to a couple weeks ago.

Again, thanks for all the help!

tjdd91ls

Oh, and yes...when cranking my tach needle jumps around a little. Not completely still.

fcm

That would indicate ICM is good.

Black/yellow is a "true" ign. circuit, [hot in run and start] it is a good bet anything with a black/yellow needs a "true" ign. power, and although all will be hot in run and start, not all will be on the same fused circuit.

Rad fan is most likely being "triggered" by the Rad Fan Control Module, it uses a signal from the oil temp. switch to keep rad fan on even if ign. is turned off.

Rear window defog timer is in the ICU, the ICU is a common problem on Honda/Acura, it will also effect inter. wipers, warning chimes, front side markers, [park/signal/hazard lights].

I would be removing the coil and testing it. 94

tjdd91ls

Thanks fcm. Sounds like I may have a few seperate issues. For now, I'll save the icu and rad fan issue for after I get the car running. With my limited attention span I need to stay focused on one thing at a time. Just wasn't sure if by chance all this stuff was related.

I highly doubt my coil is bad. The one that I have now is essentially my second NEW coil this week. I guess anything is possible, but not too likely. The coil is the first thing that I replaced because I just "knew" that was the problem. After that didn't fix the problem, I went ahead and bought a complete distributor with coil, icm, etc, because i just "knew" that had to be the problem. So that leads me to where I am now. Finally, I decided the smartest (and more cost effective) thing to do is to try and diagnose the problem FIRST, then fix the broken item. So, looks like tonight I'll be checking the output signal on my ylw/grn wire and even testing my coil.

This is great! Please keep the suggestions/advice coming. I really have no clue when it comes to electrical (as if you guys couldn't tell!!!), but kind of enjoy this troubleshooting...as long as I know WHAT I need to troubleshoot.

Thanks for all the help so far! Eventually, this thing will be running and my son and I can start the fun stuff!!

fcm

OK, and no more testing for spark by pulling spark plug leads, an HEI spark tester is pretty cheap $10-$15...



It is a very handy tool to have for troubleshooting. 94

tjdd91ls

haha...I went and got an inline tester. Esentially the same thing. Hopefully tonight I will have some better information to report back.

el crapitan

whenever testing for power in a circuit, you're best off testing with everything hooked up and live. back probing the connector
i was unaware that you'd disconnected the distributor with the key on.
try clearing the code, then cranking the engine several times. see if the code comes back. this way we're not chasing our tail with something that may not be the problem.
also, the tach can move and the icm to ecm wire could still be damaged. since i believe the tach has its own signal from the icm, separate from the ecm input

tjdd91ls

Thanks. I didn't have time to look at this last night, but will check it out today. And back probing my connectors from now on!

One quick question. After I clear my code and then check the ylw/grn wire, I'm going to recheck my coil. I was told I could test my coil by placing a lead from my tester on the coil + and one on the coil - and have someone try to start the car. If there is surging power then my coil is bad? Does that sound right? Also, I have read NOT to crank my engine with the cap off or I risk frying my coil. So how can I test the coil without taking the cap off and exposing the terminals? Sorry for being such a NOOB, but I'm learning...I swear!

Appreciate all the help!!!

fcm

Do an impedance test on the coil.94

el crapitan

yes. test resistance. the primary coil should be around 1 ohm, i believe. and secondary around 10Kohm. don't hold me to that though. look the spec up

tjdd91ls

well, after chasing gremlins I finally figured it out. My BRAND NEW cap and rotor went bad. My car ran for about 100 miles after I changed them so I figured there was no way they could have been bad already. Wrong! So either my distributor, coil or ICM caused my cap and rotor to go out, or it was just a cheap autozone junk...or both. So for now it's running and it has new cap, rotor, distributor, coil, icm, plugs and wires. Thanks el crapitan and fcm for the help! I also cleaned my IACV, thanks to the write up on here, and fixed my idle surge. Still need to check into my fan issue, but I did look and see that it is my ac fan?? It's the fan on the drivers side that seems to stay on forever after I shut the car off. Now I get to start on some of the fun stuff...coil overs, new tires, and paint!