Go Back   Honda-Tech > Honda and Acura Technical Forums > Forced Induction
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search


Welcome to Honda-Tech!
Welcome to Honda-Tech.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Honda-Tech community today!


Reply
 
 
 
submit to reddit
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-10-2004, 04:28 PM   #1
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
BB6-213's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Where the beer flows like wine, CO, USA
Posts: 4,117
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter?

I was just wondering what the side effects are from using a Two step, because my buddys teg's sc61 took a crap on him, and he thinks its because of the two step on his aems, so now I am nervous to use mine, because i dont want to ruin my sc44. so if anyone has insight on this, let me know, thanks.
__________________
-2001 Prelude..fat pig-2004 TL...dirty HRE's-1996 4Runner... SAS, ARBs, 5.29s, cromos, armored, dual cases, 37s...on yeah it's PTE 5557 turbocharged.
BB6-213 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2004, 04:36 PM   #2
Junior Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
tegedrex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NJ, US
Posts: 932
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (BB6-213)

Ive heard that the boost build off the line can eventually be bad for the turbo, but it sooo nice off the line
tegedrex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2004, 04:44 PM   #3
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Jared's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Tallahassee, FL, US
Posts: 7,178
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (BB6-213)

tell your buddy i have an sc61 i'll sell him
__________________
ASE Master Technician - L1
Nissan Master Technician
GTR Certified
AEM Factory Trained
Jared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2004, 05:14 PM   #4
Junior Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
Forrest Gump 9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 650
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (BB6-213)

brake axles Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
".....I drive a 700whp car. Everytime I floor it, my **** get two inches longer..."
Forrest Gump 9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2004, 05:44 PM   #5
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
mrbsponge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: TDCperformance.net
Posts: 4,099
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to mrbsponge
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (Turbo9Nut)

tell your buddy to buy a NOS kit and launch a lot lower, works like a frikin charm for me and my 1.60 60fts!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Lexus SC300 B/W S366 9.51@146 Drag Radial Street Car
Top Dead Center Performance(www.tdcperformance.net)
Mobile Alabama, 251-661-6067, Neptune Dealer/Tuner
mrbsponge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 08:23 AM   #6
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
underpressure02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Allentown, PA, USA
Posts: 6,663
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (BB6-213)

I asked this question a while back. Did not really get any good answers.

I have heard that it can possibly break your ringlands from a few people.

I used my msd 2 step a few times but did not run any better times then when I did not use it. I guess I have to get use to it more.

I cut 1.64 60 foots without it on 24.5 slicks.
__________________
Stolen 5/13/03
http://WWW.TEAMXXXRACING.COM NE Drag Racing Club
<FONT COLOR="red"> If anyone needs help working on their car in the PA, NJ area let me know.</FONT>
Vouch Thread.http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=427792
<A HREF="http://www.myspace.com/underpressure02
" TARGET="_blank">http://www.myspace.com/underpressure02
</A>
underpressure02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 08:56 AM   #7
Junior Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
hoggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Anderson, IN, USA
Posts: 404
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to hoggy
Default

What went wrong with his turbo?

The main downsides of a 2 step as far as the turbo is concerned is that the AEM two step allows you to control ignition timing and fuel based on using the 2 step. When you do this, basically what you are doing is allowing combustion to take place after the combustions chamber. This is hard on valves and hard on anything in the exhaust system like a turbo since combustion is taking place in the exhaust housing. On the other hand this is absolutely awesome for making boost off the line on a car with a big turbo like an sc61. You just have to know what you are doing when using it. Its a great feature but you are sacraficing your turbo for boost off the line. Worth it if you understand this and are ok with it.
__________________
92 CX w/B16a2, 2.5 inch exhaust, no cat
Ground Control, KYB AGX, Skunk2 camber plates
14.705@93.24(Falken Azenis, NA)
Holset HX35 @ 9psi
237hp 165tq
13.498 @ 109 (azenis)
blown turbo, blown motor
D16Z6 swap w/14b to come

Ecu chipping and vtec conversions available
Ecu's for sale as well
PM or email me for more info
hoggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 09:20 AM   #8
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
m R g S r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: NYC bitchessss
Posts: 9,555
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to m R g S r
Default Re: (hoggy)

Yea, pro drag cars do it, but they rebuild their cars every few runs. You also get really high EGT's with pulling timing and dumping fuel (to spool the turbo)
__________________
Manhattan College Mech. Engineering Student
2002 S2000--485whp pump gas
2009 Si Sedan--DD
m R g S r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 10:53 AM   #9
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
*Boostwerks*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: I heart tool, US
Posts: 9,453
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via ICQ to *Boostwerks* Send a message via AIM to *Boostwerks*
Default

Yeah...

EGTs is really the only downside about it...but you shouldn't be on the 3step for more than a few seconds.

__________________
Boostwerks Speed Shop
www.Boostwerks.com
Check us out on Face Book ---> http://www.facebook.com/Boostwerks
*Boostwerks* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 12:32 PM   #10
Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
tgreaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Baltimore, maryland, usa
Posts: 5,084
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (BB6-213)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB6-213
I was just wondering what the side effects are from using a Two step
Good 60' times, Low ET's........
__________________
(new) 94' Honda Civic VX - Work in progress

(old) 89' Honda Crx DX
-- 1/4 - 12.75 @ 108 mph on 12 psi

AEM EMS Tuner....PM me for tuning in the Baltimore, MD area..

WTB: Tow Dolly somewhere around Maryland..
FS: B16 jdm sir2 shortblock, about 2K on it since I rebuilt it..
FS: 2001 Honda Prelude Type-SH, Red, Make offer..

Vouch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerbongskickass
I sat on a flow bench once and farted more air flow than a d-series head.
tgreaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 12:49 PM   #11
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
*Boostwerks*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: I heart tool, US
Posts: 9,453
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via ICQ to *Boostwerks* Send a message via AIM to *Boostwerks*
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (tgreaves)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreaves

Good 60' times, Low ET's........
Usually a side effect is a negative aspect Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
Boostwerks Speed Shop
www.Boostwerks.com
Check us out on Face Book ---> http://www.facebook.com/Boostwerks
*Boostwerks* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 12:54 PM   #12
Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
tgreaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Baltimore, maryland, usa
Posts: 5,084
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (Bryson)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson

Usually a side effect is a negative aspect Click the image to open in full size.
Sometimes I guess.. In that case broken axles would be the big one..
__________________
(new) 94' Honda Civic VX - Work in progress

(old) 89' Honda Crx DX
-- 1/4 - 12.75 @ 108 mph on 12 psi

AEM EMS Tuner....PM me for tuning in the Baltimore, MD area..

WTB: Tow Dolly somewhere around Maryland..
FS: B16 jdm sir2 shortblock, about 2K on it since I rebuilt it..
FS: 2001 Honda Prelude Type-SH, Red, Make offer..

Vouch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerbongskickass
I sat on a flow bench once and farted more air flow than a d-series head.
tgreaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 01:44 PM   #13
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
*Boostwerks*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: I heart tool, US
Posts: 9,453
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via ICQ to *Boostwerks* Send a message via AIM to *Boostwerks*
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (tgreaves)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreaves

Sometimes I guess.. In that case broken axles would be the big one..
I would agree with you in some aspect, but it mainly depends on how you launch the car. If you just dump it right off the line, your going to break ****. If you slip dump it, it gives the driveline a chance to preload before being exerted to the full force of the motor.
__________________
Boostwerks Speed Shop
www.Boostwerks.com
Check us out on Face Book ---> http://www.facebook.com/Boostwerks
*Boostwerks* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 01:48 PM   #14
Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
tgreaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Baltimore, maryland, usa
Posts: 5,084
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (Bryson)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryson

I would agree with you in some aspect, but it mainly depends on how you launch the car. If you just dump it right off the line, your going to break ****. If you slip dump it, it gives the driveline a chance to preload before being exerted to the full force of the motor.
It depends on your traction that your getting.. I just dump it from the line but then again I run a little more air in my slicks so that they will spin just a little to lessen the impact of launching.. This way you can get consistant launches all the time.. Just find out what psi is working good for the conditions and just dump the clutch off the 2-step and youll be good..
__________________
(new) 94' Honda Civic VX - Work in progress

(old) 89' Honda Crx DX
-- 1/4 - 12.75 @ 108 mph on 12 psi

AEM EMS Tuner....PM me for tuning in the Baltimore, MD area..

WTB: Tow Dolly somewhere around Maryland..
FS: B16 jdm sir2 shortblock, about 2K on it since I rebuilt it..
FS: 2001 Honda Prelude Type-SH, Red, Make offer..

Vouch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerbongskickass
I sat on a flow bench once and farted more air flow than a d-series head.
tgreaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 01:53 PM   #15
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
ScottEK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Hiboosta, IL, USA
Posts: 2,959
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to ScottEK
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (tgreaves)

I always was a little concerned with how uberdata does it. I dont know if it actually matters or not but I think that uberdata uses a fuel cut to FTL and FTS. With FTL I guess going lean at 4-5000RPMs isn't going to be that major. However when you full throttle shift at full boost at 6000RPMs and hit a lean fuel cut isn't that going to detonate? Am I thinking of this the wrong way?
__________________
Scotty Doesn't Know!
90' Chameleon CRX - TopMount SC61 w/ 4" Downpipe Can Be Done...
94' Integra - Project Dadfab
96' Civic EK H22 Hatch
02' RSX Type-S Daily Driver

<FONT COLOR="blue">Download My Turbo CRX Videos</FONT>
ScottEK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 01:56 PM   #16
Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
tgreaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Baltimore, maryland, usa
Posts: 5,084
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (beta13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by beta13
I always was a little concerned with how uberdata does it. I dont know if it actually matters or not but I think that uberdata uses a fuel cut to FTL and FTS. With FTL I guess going lean at 4-5000RPMs isn't going to be that major. However when you full throttle shift at full boost at 6000RPMs and hit a lean fuel cut isn't that going to detonate? Am I thinking of this the wrong way?
On my 2-step that is in my AEM EMS.. I just never cut fuel, just ignition.. Well my parameters are to cut ignition at 4400 and fuel at 4700 and that gives me a nice, smooth 2-step..
__________________
(new) 94' Honda Civic VX - Work in progress

(old) 89' Honda Crx DX
-- 1/4 - 12.75 @ 108 mph on 12 psi

AEM EMS Tuner....PM me for tuning in the Baltimore, MD area..

WTB: Tow Dolly somewhere around Maryland..
FS: B16 jdm sir2 shortblock, about 2K on it since I rebuilt it..
FS: 2001 Honda Prelude Type-SH, Red, Make offer..

Vouch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerbongskickass
I sat on a flow bench once and farted more air flow than a d-series head.
tgreaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004, 06:52 AM   #17
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
ScottEK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Hiboosta, IL, USA
Posts: 2,959
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to ScottEK
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (beta13)

Anyone have any input on my worries about uberdata full throttle shifting. Does AEM use coil packs or it's own ignition system? How is it able to cut ignition where chipped ECUs can not?

Note: I am in no way trying to talk **** about uberdata, I absolutely love it but I imagine that there are always going to be limitations on a free product.
__________________
Scotty Doesn't Know!
90' Chameleon CRX - TopMount SC61 w/ 4" Downpipe Can Be Done...
94' Integra - Project Dadfab
96' Civic EK H22 Hatch
02' RSX Type-S Daily Driver

<FONT COLOR="blue">Download My Turbo CRX Videos</FONT>
ScottEK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004, 07:36 AM   #18
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
raene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada
Posts: 4,425
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (tgreaves)

Uberdata cuts fuel, just like Hondata, just like the stock ECU. All they're doing is lowering the rev limiter.

It's not nearly as damaging as you think because you're not running *lean*, you're running *no fuel*. Basically your engine just pumps air. There's no fuel to ignite so there's no detonation.

I've been using FTL this whole year, zero side effects and no broken axles (yet) Click the image to open in full size. I have spares just in case though Click the image to open in full size. All my friends use FTL and have been for years, and no one's broken anything more than axles and a diff, actually.
__________________
Ghetto Garage Racing
'88 CRX 504hp pump gas
raene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004, 07:55 AM   #19
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
ScottEK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Hiboosta, IL, USA
Posts: 2,959
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to ScottEK
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (raene)

I blew a hole in my trans using it about two weeks ago but I think it is totally unrelated. My trans has strage little quirks that I always noticed but didn't pay attention to and it just finally let go one day. I've played with adding fuel and retarding timing but I always seem to build the same amount of boost (0.05 bar) whoopie!
__________________
Scotty Doesn't Know!
90' Chameleon CRX - TopMount SC61 w/ 4" Downpipe Can Be Done...
94' Integra - Project Dadfab
96' Civic EK H22 Hatch
02' RSX Type-S Daily Driver

<FONT COLOR="blue">Download My Turbo CRX Videos</FONT>
ScottEK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004, 08:04 AM   #20
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: WA
Posts: 2,199
iTrader Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to beerbongskickass
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (beta13)

FTL and FTS? What are those? I just use my rev limiter when I am at the track for launching and shifting. Click the image to open in full size.
beerbongskickass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004, 08:15 AM   #21
Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
tgreaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Baltimore, maryland, usa
Posts: 5,084
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (beta13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by beta13
I blew a hole in my trans using it about two weeks ago but I think it is totally unrelated. My trans has strage little quirks that I always noticed but didn't pay attention to and it just finally let go one day. I've played with adding fuel and retarding timing but I always seem to build the same amount of boost (0.05 bar) whoopie!
Thats where the rev-retard feature of the AEM EMS shines.. You can retard the ignition timing at a certant rpm and that helps limit rpms but keeps alot of the spark there so your turbo will spool up at the line ALOT..
__________________
(new) 94' Honda Civic VX - Work in progress

(old) 89' Honda Crx DX
-- 1/4 - 12.75 @ 108 mph on 12 psi

AEM EMS Tuner....PM me for tuning in the Baltimore, MD area..

WTB: Tow Dolly somewhere around Maryland..
FS: B16 jdm sir2 shortblock, about 2K on it since I rebuilt it..
FS: 2001 Honda Prelude Type-SH, Red, Make offer..

Vouch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerbongskickass
I sat on a flow bench once and farted more air flow than a d-series head.
tgreaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004, 02:33 PM   #22
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
BB6-213's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Where the beer flows like wine, CO, USA
Posts: 4,117
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (raene)

Quote:
Originally Posted by raene
I've been using FTL this whole year, zero side effects and no broken axles (yet) Click the image to open in full size. I have spares just in case though Click the image to open in full size. All my friends use FTL and have been for years, and no one's broken anything more than axles and a diff, actually.
Has anything happened to your turbo becauses of this, or are you n/a?
__________________
-2001 Prelude..fat pig-2004 TL...dirty HRE's-1996 4Runner... SAS, ARBs, 5.29s, cromos, armored, dual cases, 37s...on yeah it's PTE 5557 turbocharged.
BB6-213 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004, 03:22 PM   #23
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
raene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada
Posts: 4,425
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (BB6-213)

I've only been at the track 2x with the turbo, no probs during that interval. My friend with a GReddy turbo kit ran FTL for a season, turbo'd with numerous low 12-second passes and hard launches, no problems on his turbo either Click the image to open in full size. The engine's still oiling the turbo, and the engine's just pumping air.
__________________
Ghetto Garage Racing
'88 CRX 504hp pump gas
raene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004, 04:45 PM   #24
Honda-Tech Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
BB6-213's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Where the beer flows like wine, CO, USA
Posts: 4,117
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default

I just thought since the combustion is taking place in the turbo that it would be hard on it, guess i will just have to take the chance, lol.
__________________
-2001 Prelude..fat pig-2004 TL...dirty HRE's-1996 4Runner... SAS, ARBs, 5.29s, cromos, armored, dual cases, 37s...on yeah it's PTE 5557 turbocharged.
BB6-213 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2004, 05:04 PM   #25
Garage is empty, add now
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: My turbo has bigger balls than you do.
Posts: 124
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Side Effects from using Full Throttle Launch / Two Step Limiter? (mrbsponge)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbsponge
tell your buddy to buy a NOS kit and launch a lot lower, works like a frikin charm for me and my 1.60 60fts!!!!!!!!!
Sounds liek a fantastic way to bend some rods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beta13
Anyone have any input on my worries about uberdata full throttle shifting. Does AEM use coil packs or it's own ignition system? How is it able to cut ignition where chipped ECUs can not?

Note: I am in no way trying to talk **** about uberdata, I absolutely love it but I imagine that there are always going to be limitations on a free product.
Actually, Uber cuts the spark. Not the fuel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB6-213
I just thought since the combustion is taking place in the turbo that it would be hard on it, guess i will just have to take the chance, lol.
lol, if the combustion took place in the turbo, you'd have some serious problems. The combustion actually takes place in the manifold. The pressure just pushes into the turbine - which is still greater static than it would see on the exhaust alone. It'd at most wear your full-faced bearings down a little prematurely. Ball bearings won't give a ****. Even still, you'd have to be doing it at extremly dramatic levels to get it to the point it'd wear it down in less than a year. Your manifold would crack long long before that.
Nobody Special is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
 
submit to reddit
Reply

Tags
4361, aem, bad, effects, ftl, full, h22, hatch, ignition, launch, limiters, msd, side, step, throttle

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:09 AM.



2008 Copyright, InternetBrands Inc.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Honda and the Honda marquee are registered trademarks of the American Honda Motor Company, Inc. Neither American Honda Motor Company nor its subsidiaries or affiliates shall bear any responsibility for Honda-Tech.com content, comments, or advertising. Honda-Tech.com is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Company in any way. American Honda Motor Company does not sponsor, support, or endorse Honda-Tech.com in any way. Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended or implied.
Emails & Contact Details